Saudi Arabia: Remaining Doubt over Truth of 9/11


September 11, 2011 will be the 10th year anniversary of what has become known globally as simply “9/11.”  There has been much talk on what are the true facts of 9/11.  What is the difference between truth and conspiracy?  Was it totally a planned act of terror heavily weighted by funds of Usama bin Laden and supporters?  Or…was it something else entirely?


Personally I continue to see 9/11 as a carefully orchestrated act of terror with all the earmarks of bin Laden and Al Qaeda.  Yet I have had discussions with others, including Americans, who disagree with my point of view.


The following is a video which presents a perspective of 9/11.  Whether one agrees or disagrees, it will surely provoke interesting perspectives and dialogue.


136 Responses

  1. @Carol, I think you miss our local conspiracy theorist.
    We have not seen her interesting comments for a while. Let the conspiracies begin 🙂

  2. A few days ago I saw a program that said something I thought a bit embarrassing for America but kind of funny. The high level gov’t official was talking about a popular conspiracy theory (not 9/11) and he said that the government is so big and lumbering, slow moving and downright leaky in so many ways that the cosnpiracy theory would be next to impossible to be true…it would be near impossible to keep the secret. I don’t know why but that struck me as funny because I have always seen the government kind of like that…so many moving parts and often diametrically opposed that it would be tough to have many people involved in any major conspiracy theory without someone spilling the beans to someone else!

  3. You should be ashamed of yourself.

  4. Jerry M…

    Are you referring to me? if so why should I be ashamed of myself? I do think there is some truth in what that guy said…

  5. Any major event is going to have a conspiracy theory.
    Recalling the time I was Italy, a group of Italians were so dead on that no airplanes went into the World Trade Ctr. I told them I two miles away, on Fifthe Avenue, a birds eye view, I SAW the planes go in—they REFUSED to believe me.

  6. “Personally I continue to see 9/11 as a carefully orchestrated act of terror with all the earmarks of bin Laden and Al Qaeda. ”

    Really? you should really do some more reading. There is so much, unrefuted evidence that shows 9/11 could not possibly have happened the way the government says it did. More and more people are realising this every day, simply though, just watching video if the buildings coming down, especially building 7, which wasnt hit by a plane, and fell at free fall speed, through the path of most resistance.. well, it was either explosives or the laws of physics simply stopped working that day.

  7. @oby, no not you. American Bedu should be ashamed for spreading this kind of bs.

  8. I agree with Jerry M. Now here’s the TRUE story behind 9/11 ……

  9. It is one thing to says that the US should have known about the attack and should have been able to stop it, but anyone who thinks it was an inside job must assume that the US has successfully coopted Muslim extremists and has been able to keep it quiet.

  10. @Jerry M,

    Truthers are all over the internet with hundreds of sites and many many videos on youtube. I do not think by Carol posting the video she is spreading their influence. There is a small set of the American population that love a conspiracy and have a predisposition to believe in them.

    In the Arabic world there is a large number of people that believe in these conspiracies. Along with many others, like did the US actually land a man on the moon. Although, most of us do not believe in the conspiracy, it is a worthy topic to discuss why so many in the Arabic world can be easily persuaded to believe in such conspiracies, especially if they cast a bad light on the US government.

  11. @Moq,

    My answer would be because there is little to no critical thinking involved in the education system. Also, I would say that tribal societies may not question information coming from the top-down as much as individual based societies.

  12. I have always assumed some form of cover up simply because the event happened, its cause determined and reported on, and the site quickly cleaned up in no time at all.

    I have never seen a disaster of such magnitude investigated and conclusions found on who is to blame…and then cleaned up (that being amazing all by itself) with such diligence, accuracy, and speed as 9/11.

    Govt red tape has never EVER allowed such efficiency to transpire in anything that has ever happened in the history of America. EVER. Why this time, this one time, was it so expedient and efficient to the point of mind blowing THIS is who did it and THIS is how they did. Period. No further questions need be asked.

    If you believe such a thing is possible in America when it comes to our govt at work…then I have no words for your lack of critical thinking skills.

    Im not saying any of those conspiracies are true…Im just saying I dont believe the “official” version either. Too perfect. Too suspect.

  13. @Cool Red,
    I agree with what you just posted. I think there is more to this than meets the eye, but I don’t know what it is.

  14. sadly, i don’t think we’ll ever know the truth about 9/11 and that’s just what the proverbial “they” want, isn’t it?

  15. Kristine…

    OMG! Yesterday I was corresponding with someone FROM a tribal society who said that exact same thing…that people in tribal societies NEED to have a leader to tell them what to do/think and that they often will not question what the guys at the top say… of course this person to even realize that is probably more aware than the average person in this tribal world.

  16. @Oby,

    Thanks for the affirmation! Dang it, I should’ve majored in cultural anthropology!

  17. I chose to post this video for the exact discussions which have ensued. Yes, there are Americans who believe there remains cover-up if not a conspiracy to 9/11. In the Arab world I have seen with my own eyes how many believe 9/11 was a conspiracy and that the facts had been scripted!

    I remember during my early years in Pakistan that many of its people whose education (if any) was only from a madressa (Islamic school) where the only subject taught was the Quran. As a result, whatever the tribal leader or local imam said was accepted and not to be questioned.

    It is easy to forget that we who participate here have the internet, satellite or cable tv and other mediums to get a wide range of news and views. Whereas in tribal areas and remote areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan and similar places in the Middle East there are people who do not have access to information and continue to rely on the word of tribal leaders and imams.

  18. @coolred
    REALLY? And you know this how? I was there, it was not a quick clean up, it was messy, it was long, it was awful. It was heart breaking. And now it’s killing the very people who toiled there. YOU should be ashamed.

  19. Coolred, I too raised an eyebrow at your thinking that the clean up was quick. Perhaps it’s because you weren’t living in the US at the time?

  20. jki…why should I be ashamed…if anything I am ticked off that it was brushed away so freakin fast (and yes, 9 months is extremely fast for such things). I did not say a single thing against the people that died there, or continue to die due to complications…I pointed my finger at squarely at the govt.

    Read with comprehension before jumping up and down in outrage.

  21. Lynn…I dont mean it happened in days or weeks…I meant compared to other disasters and the aftermath and clean up…it was fast in that regard.

    Fast being a relative word in accordance with how time is viewed when speaking of such events.

  22. When they point to the ‘speed’ that it was cleaned up did they cite examples of other disasters that took longer to clean up? Did the other disasters get worked on 24/7 as Ground Zero was? There was a bit of an urgency considering that they were also trying to locate remains of people that had been in the buildings.

  23. I thought it took years to clean up the mess?
    I think that the testimony left behind by the terrorrists and Al Qaida claiming the attack, as well as the testimony from the people on the planes who took over control over the highjackers, is pretty convincing.

    What I think is more suspect is the plane loads of Saudi Bush Buddies, including a whole planeload of Bin Ladens , were shipped out of America before they could be called in for questioning.
    It seems to me that the Bush administration was pretty quick of the mark in the wrong areas.

    On the other hand I think it was most probably organized by the Reptilians, to keep us at war with each other.

  24. @Aafke,

    Don’t worry, the Sirians are here to help us usher in the new golden age 🙂

  25. 9 months for clean up is to fast? what?

    – The area of the attack was at the center of the most important financial district in the world.
    – It is part of the most important city in the Western hemisphere
    – It is very important for the pride of a 300 Million people nation which prides itself on the can do attitude. The US was not going to allow the attack on the towers to turn into a defeat. The best way to eliminate such feelings is to clean up and rebuild.
    – I have been at ground zero recently and it is finally not a hole in the ground. However, the buildings are still under construction almost 10 years later. So it is not fast to rebuild.

    I think Coolred may be comparing to New Orleans rebuilding and clean up. I understand that is pathetic, but New Orleans does not compare to New York in its significance to the economy and american pride.

  26. I think Coolred should tell us what her frame of reference is for saying the clean up was ‘fast’, including links. If this is something more than vague opinion – please share it. Thanks.

    American Bedu, I think this type of info should not be propagated without a context that shows another view. There is a lot of paranoia that gets passed around without context or critique and it is just feeding the flames. That does no good ever and may cause harm.

  27. Interesting discussion! Maybe I should make time to watch this video and see if I am convinced by this other version of what happened that day.

  28. I agree with lark. Having lived in the Middle East for many years, I have heard/read every conspiracy theory imaginable – that Israelis bake Palestinian children’s blood in their cookies to there never was a Holocaust in WWII – and this was published in the Arab News newspaper as TRUTH. I believe any time a conspiracy theory is posted ANYWHERE it plays into the hands of non-thinkers and haters who instigate violence instead of peaceful, thoughtful solutions. Yes, debate is great, American Bedu – but not when it comes to conspiracies that are made up soley to deny responsibility and attack the victims.

  29. coolred is right about the clean up and conspiracies. a lot of cover ups going on there. did you even see the mess at the pentagon? how long did it take for katrina to get cleaned up?

  30. oh. i never once saw an interview of any family members related to the victims that were killed in the so called hijacked PLANES [not the towers]. completely unheard of in the western media. ho hum.

  31. As far as I heard clean up took years. And MANY family members of people on the airplanes were interviewed. Many of them spoke of phone calls they received from the planes before they crashed.

    There was a very good BBC documentary that tracked all the actions of the hijackers before the attack. They actually know quite alot about them.

    Conspiriacy theories are widespread in Saudi. To many people drinking the Kool-Aid-(Or perhaps the hallucinegenic-laced Nescafe) Sometimes it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with people. But as I recall even the hijackers families knew what their children had done. They couldn’t understand how it had all gone so wrong- but they knew they had done it.

  32. i remember the one lady [no personal interview, just listening] and her cell phone conversation. it was on cnn or fox. nothing on the other very popular talk shows. and poof, that was it.

  33. gia, It seems that there was even a movie made about some of the victims in the airplanes. Didn’t the wife of one of the men who overtook over the hijackers write a book? Let’s Roll or something like that? Isn’t that what he said right before they overtook them? I can’t even believe that you never heard anything about any of the airplane victims if you were paying attention to ANY news at that time.

  34. gia, how long DID it take to clean up ‘Katrina’? What is involved in cleaning up ‘Katrina’? Are you talking about people’s personal properties? That is not the government’s responsibility to clean up.

  35. As someone who as a kid saw the WTC every day from my bedroom window and who has family that still lives there, the clean up was not fast at all…in fact it was very slow for many reasons…one was because families of the killed were wanting NYC to comb through the ruble with a fine toothed comb looking for even tiny pieces of bones from missing loved ones. They not only looked at the WTC ground they found pieces of people on top of adjacent buildings and if I am not mistaken even two blocks away. The city was going slowly to try to make sure they were repectful to the dead and find everyone they could. On the other hand You can’t leave the remains of 3000 dead people plus several hundred from the planes lying in the street while you conduct an investigation. It was a real ricky balancing act. Now that it has all been cleared, they have gone down to the original level of the firmament and in the process have found an 18th century sailing ship that was put there 200+ years ago.

    BTW, as an interesting aside…David Angell the producer of “Cheers” and his wife died aboard AA flight 11 that morning.

  36. Gia: I was in Saudi Arabia when 9/11 occurred, and even I saw many interviews with victims’ family members. Were you sleeping? They organized groups and spoke out often. Please don’t propogate misinformation.

  37. It is considered that 9/11 was done by terrorist Al-Qaida/Taliban. But who created, financed, trained Taliban/Al-Qaida?

    Creator of terrorists is great but their act is worst? What logic is it?

    If I harm others, others will harm me one day surely. This is what happend.

    In between see Fahrenheit 9/11 and Reaction on Bush’s face-president:

    If u dnt have time to see full, just have a glipmpse on this small Youtube video.

    If u have time see full documentary:–Michael-Moore-


  38. ‘But who created, financed, trained Taliban/Al-Qaida?’

    I hear that all the time but, to me, all that really proves is that you shouldn’t bother to help Muslims because you can’t trust them not to turn on you.

  39. compare the twin towers with the pentagon when struck on 911. one was not leveled. humm. if you know someone with ‘experience’ with leveling buildings, engineer of some sort not to get to technical here. they will tell you impossible to level perfectly [professionally] all those buildings perfecto at once by the airplane. do the research. those buildings were not made of toothpicks.

  40. There were explosions in the basement of both towers before such planes hitting the towers..
    such explosions were to weaken the structure
    thus after planes hitting / controlled explosions
    bringing the towers down as an pack of cards.

    Russia could no longer be the perceived enemy
    thus the cold war had to end (or seem ending)..

    Russia at present too powerful too invade thus gain of its vast natural resources. EURO / USA
    but take the gentler route approach / thus they
    brought a end of the cold war.WHY you ask ??
    Such due unto western nations great needs in having access to RUSSIA’s natural resources.

    Thus the need replacing Russia as the great enemy // such intentions being done through
    unjust/appalling western media propaganda.
    the enemy became MUSLIMS whom gained
    (overnight) in their having weopons of mass
    destruction. Such NONSENSE for decades enforced through the movie world of where
    produced endless movies of TERRORISTS
    whom were intent destroying the USA whom
    be intent on destroying western democracy.

    Thus present situation Russia is now a friend
    of western nations NO Longer An COLD WAR.

    It being the MUSLIMS whom are the threat / in
    their having weopons of mass destruction….
    with which threaten FREEDOM DEMOCRACY.

    Thus with the use of western media / a bit
    of majic being done // one day its RUSSIA
    the great threat to humanity // Then another
    day it MUSLIMS / where the western media propaganda machine OILED working 24/7.

    Thus the USA govt can continue justify an
    standing army of hundreds of thousands
    at yearly cost of MANY $billions / in need
    of maintaining / in sustaining it’s upkeep.

    The result of such focus of fear removed
    from Russia / unto MUSLIMS /which has
    been appalling in its outcome // both the
    the AMERICAN as EURO govts in having
    abandoned international / domestic law
    thus allowing for the invasion of muslim
    nations / in the setting up of pupet govts.

    Such level of deceit where the protection
    of democracy / freedom // but used as a
    cover to justify the most dire appalling of
    crimes against human beings // where
    hundreds of thousands of muslims but
    slaughtered // man woman child shown
    no mercy / evil bringing an river of blood
    a river of tears. The suffering // injustice
    the destruction /be beyond all measure.

    What can be done / which halting such
    appalling human behaviour ????????
    the first / BOTH the USA as the EURO
    govts must restore their agreement in
    abiding by international law // where it
    be that boundaries are again restored
    that they are not above the law / but are
    held accountable for the wrongs done.

    Domestic law being restored / where
    people in having their rights restored.

    At present western media but spins
    out endless propaganda / that being
    under the complete control of govt’s
    those in the media but spin out such
    nonsense / knowing in not doing so
    they will face certain unemployment.

    In using defence of democracy the
    defence of freedom // as an cover
    people in having been stripped of
    their basic rights. The situation at
    present time // it be any individual
    can now be arrested as being an
    suspect terrorist resulting in their
    being imprisoned / in they having
    no access to a layer // their family
    not informed of their whereabouts
    such individuals held imprisoned
    for any length of time// while they
    be imprisoned torture be used in
    gain of confessions /// the courts
    accepting any such confessions
    under torture as legal // if such a
    individual ever goes to trial// if be
    such a trial // then such trial held
    behind closed doors/ whuich be
    under full control of military laws.

    The greater problem in humanity
    having taken the material aspect
    of creation to the extreme // thus
    mind having taken much control
    where the heart remains closed.

    Humanity needs both aspects..
    of brain as heart in giving them
    the balance that being required
    in maintaing / needed balance.

    Through brain // understanding
    through heart be // compassion.

    Where both aspects in working
    as one development balanced
    bringing a individual unfolding
    of knowledge that balanced in
    understanding. // Matched via
    the heart giving an experience
    of an unfolding of the spiritual
    self / where building an bridge
    in revealing the spiritual realm.

    Such the purpose of creation
    that it sustain an human form
    that via heart / brain// there be
    an balanced development in
    understanding // experience
    that bringing / enlightenment
    where ones life is not based
    on ideas / beliefs /but based
    on ones knowing truth in the
    clarity of understanding / in
    one’s knowing truth through
    unfolding of the spiritual self.

  41. Dear Gia,

    Did Americans land on the moon in July 1969? I heard it was all a hoax staged in the Arizona dessert:)-

  42. are you sure arizona?

  43. @ Lynn… we never hear about BinLaden or this Qaeda unless it is via american media!
    I always wondered how conveniently were the cameras so placed to record this widely televised crime!! I remember as i watched non believing, that right after it, the TV immediately brought on the photos of Bin Laden. Many Saudi names were given as to be the culprits several of which showed up in KSA denying in person and ALIVE, and saying that this is a lie.

  44. One need always think who really benefited from all this on looking back now. Also what happens brings the film ” Long Kiss Good Night” to memory.

  45. @ Lynn… you define the personal traits of a person by what? race? religion? country? or by which family he/she is from? Dont you think ‘generalization’ is a form of racism??
    Islam is widespread over the whole world from the Americas down to Australia with the highest number in South East Asia. It does not define a race. As in any religion you have rapists (well known now after the assault on Baghdad), you have murderers…etc. Do you restrict them to a certain religion???
    i really find this racism reminiscent of the Nazi way of thinking… dont you?

  46. i know the owners of the buildings that went down benefited big time. ka ching$

  47. Dr Nassef…

    “I always wondered how conveniently were the cameras so placed to record this widely televised crime!!”

    I have looked fairly well and can find only this about the first planes into the WTC. You seem to say that people were waiting on the street with cameras on the building…not so. No one has video that I could find of the first plane to hit. Once the plane hit people at first thought it was a mistake. It was being reported as a “possible terrible pilot error”. They didn’t immediately jump to the conclusion it was a terrorist attack although that idea was bandied around. NOW obviously the cameras were on the building looking at the smoke etc and then they recorded the second plane hitting. You forget NYC is a HUGE tourist town…some of the footage you see was shot by tourists and people who lived in the city and had views of the trade center. The way I saw it and I saw it live as it happened as I was watching the news that morning, is from a helicopter in the air filming the already burning first tower. Of course as the second plane hit they caught it on tape as they were ALREADY filming the first tower which as I mentioned is hard to find a clear video of the first strike.

    If you had seen it live at the actual moment it happened you would know that the first shots were NOT the shots that are seen over and over on TV now.

  48. All of the steel from the 3 buildings in NYC was immediately gathered and shipped off to China, of all places. A completely thorough examination of every piece of steel should have been conducted to determine why the two towers collapsed when they were specifically constructed to withstand aircraft impacts. That should have been done to identify faults in order to make sure other, similarly built structures did not have the same flaws. But that did not happen because the government knew what brought them down – explosives – and the sooner they got the frames out of there the less chance anyone would have of finding evidence of the materials used for that purpose. Which happened anyway, by the way. Also, how DID body parts wind up thousands of feet away from the collapse if they died by being crushed by falling floors? To me, Building 7 is the mother of all smoking guns, and there are plenty of smoking guns in the official version.

  49. @ Lynn… we never hear about BinLaden or this Qaeda unless it is via american media

    Well, Dr. Nassef, I don’t know what rock you were living under before 9/11 but Osama was already pretty well known as a terrorist as this had not been his first act. When was it that Saudi Arabia had revoked his citizenship? When did his family disown him for his actions?

  50. Dr. Nassef – @ Lynn… you define the personal traits of a person by what? race? religion? country? or by which family he/she is from? Dont you think ‘generalization’ is a form of racism??

    How do YOU? If I am going to define a personal trait of a person I would know them ‘personally’ first. If I don’t then I wouldn’t define their personal traits.

    Seems I recall you defining people’s personal traits by where they lived ‘East vs. West’. East being worthy of respect and West evil whore mongering drunkards. No? Perhaps that was someone else? Perhaps that was our friend MD?

  51. gia, you knew the owners of the buildings personally? They told you about how they benefitted? Where are they now? What are their names?

  52. “I always wondered how conveniently were the cameras so placed to record this widely televised crime!! I remember as i watched non believing, that right after it, the TV immediately brought on the photos of Bin Laden. Many Saudi names were given as to be the culprits several of which showed up in KSA denying in person and ALIVE, and saying that this is a lie.”

    And the man calls himself a Dr. I wonder how do people with lack of simple analytic skills get their degrees.

    So let’s see the claims here:

    – Cameras recording the incident: It is the US Dr. at least 30% of the households have camcorders. It is very easy for people to get their camera out if there is a TALL burning building about. Also, New York is a major city with large news media outlets owning helicopters and having teams of reporters and camera people. Making a conspiracy out of that is really a pathetic argument.

    – The TV bringing pictures of Bin Laden is another miracle in your claims. It does not take a genius to start thinking may be this is the work of AQ, which has a leader called Bin Laden. I mean seriously, think man. It took me 5 minutes to have a strong suspicion it is AQ and I was just woken up by a friend at 7 AM West coast at the time (my brain was not working at full capacity without coffee). AQ was the only Terrorist organization who had executed large multi site attacks in the past (they call that a clue). As far as bringing Bin Ladens pictures, again think Dude. The US has the best media production capability in the world, TV news organizations certainly can keep stock pictures and videos accessible at a minute’s notice.

    – Regarding the people that showed up at Saudi and denied they were there, which specific person(s) are you talking about. You know the conspiracy theorists spread rumors like that and never presented evidence of such people. The 19 who died in the planes and were named as the hijackers are still dead. The ball is in your court now to pull a miracle and resurrect at least 1 of them to proof your claim.

  53. Sorry I was late getting back to this post.

    By fast I didnt actually mean the clean up of the disaster site ONCE the investigation was complete…I meant the investigation itself. As I said, the govt knew without a doubt WHO did it,, HOW they did it and did not care that so many Americans did NOT accept those results as fact.

    Obviously the thousands of questions that are STILL being asked are the reason I believe the govt conducted that investigation and came to its results far too fast…and as someone said…then shipped off the major bits of evidence preventing any future investigations from being done.

    Hope that clarifies my comment.

  54. grrr….I should have said…the govt knew who and how within a relatively short space of time. It was almost as if they had their answers beforehand and just needed to fill in the blanks…considering some of their guilty parties were alive and well and NOT one of the hijackers as claimed tells me they had to scramble at the end to find some actual dead Saudis etc to be on that plane.

  55. ‘considering some of their guilty parties were alive and well and NOT one of the hijackers as claimed tells me they had to scramble at the end to find some actual dead Saudis etc to be on that plane’

    Seriously? Why have I never heard that? Can we have some links to that info?

  56. @coolred38,

    “I believe the govt conducted that investigation and came to its results far too fast”

    I am really puzzled by your insistence on this speed issue. Simple procedures can easily point investigations towards AQ.

    1) Only one known terrorists organization have ever shown the type of coordination and logistics capabilities that AQ did. Remember the African Embassy attacks.
    2) Investigators look for commonality, when you have a repeated crime. A quick look at the flights manifestos (can be gotten within minutes if needed) would have shown a common link of 15 Saudis on the flights. An investigator will be extremely dumb to ignore that clue.
    3) AQ is the only radical group that recruited Saudis at the time.
    4) Once you have a strong suspect, it is not very hard to move from there to more detailed investigations. Such as review of missed intelligence reports, searching apartments, suspects movements prior to the attack, computer records, phone calls, flight school records, etc.

    With the type of resources and man power such a big event attracts, it is not a surprise that they were able to come to a conclusion quickly.

    Now an argument can be made against the US invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq as a result of 911. I happen to think that was not a good decision and I was against both. However, I do not see a conspiracy here.

  57. *they had to scramble at the end to find some actual dead Saudis etc to be on that plane*

    So they did what? Quickly picked up a couple (15) of the dead Saudies which litter the streets every day in America?
    I need to pay more attention looking out of the car when I’m in America because up till now I missed those…

  58. Now it has been awhile since this happened but weren’t there Saudi families pitching a fit because their sons/fathers were listed as the suspects on the planes meanwhile they were alive and well in Saudi or wherever? I could be wrong but I clearly remember that being played out on the news.

    And I am no expert on building demolition etc…but why are there so many people actively working against having the govt findings refuted because they, as architects and demolition experts, do not believe in those findings?

    And I never said AQ didn’t do it..I have no idea if they did or not…just saying…information says the govt knew such an attack was coming long before it did…maybe not this one specifically but an attack of some sort. Mix that with fighter jets NOT scrambling when those airplanes went out of their flight plans…Bush’s sorry excuse for a reaction etc etc…well this girl and a great many others do not like how that adds up.

    If it all makes perfect sense to you guys then great for you…maybe you have an insight I and others do not posses.

  59. @coolred38,

    “If it all makes perfect sense to you guys then great for you…maybe you have an insight I and others do not posses.”

    That insight is two major investigations:

    – The 911 commission report
    – The NIST Report On the WTC towers collapse

    Both of these investigations took a long time to complete and included independent organizations like the America National Association of Civil Engineers.

    By the way the number of the demolition experts you are referring to is very small (almost insignificant statistically). They are interested in getting a headline or 2. The fact is if you have to take a building as big as one of the towers down in a controlled demolition, you will need a massive project where you have to gut walls, expose beams, drill holes for explosive all over the building, wire hundreds of floors to reach the explosives, etc. There are plenty of videos on the internet which will show you the amount of work required for such project and for much smaller buildings.

    Ask your self how could they have hid that work from the tens of thousands of people working at the WTC buildings.

    The controlled demolition story is as close to a fantasy as it gets.

  60. “By the way the number of the demolition experts you are referring to is very small (almost insignificant statistically). ”

    Sometimes all it takes is one, or a small number of disbelievers in the accepted version, to get people to change their minds….case in point…Muslims dont always stay Muslim…why…because they start doubting the “proof” that a million before them stated was uncontested truth.

    Anyhow, whether or not my government had any hand in that tragedy pales in comparison to what they have done before and since then so it is rather a moot point.

  61. @Coolred38,

    But Islam is like any religion, it has no proof.

    Do yourself a favor, do not read the reports, just watch 1 video of a small 10 story building demolition project and see how the truthers story just falls a part.

  62. OK. First off, there WERE some confusions in the initial lists of names of terrorists on board- and I do remember some on the original list turning up alilve HOWEVER they rather quickly had the complete and accurate list of who the hijackers on the plane were. I really wish I knew the name of the BBC documentary I saw on this. Anyway, those final 16 were no doubt on the planes.

    As for body parts being found far away. They were found within the same radius as the rest of the debris field. Like everything else that was pulverized and thrown in that dust cloud. When they talk parts they are usually talking VERY SMALL parts.

    The buildings were built to specifications that pre-dated the type of aircraft that hit. And it’s my understanding that the problem wasn’t just that the airplanes knocked them over-which clearly they didn’t as they didn’t fall right away. The subsequent fires melted the steel supports, weakening them, and they started to collapse. Once it got going the weight of the upper floors pushed down on the lower floors. There wasn’t a series of explosions. I remember them interviewing someone who had been talking to someone on the phone inside. They heard it coming down from above.

    As for someone making lots of money for the buildings falling. Excuse me? Names please? How much? What powers did they have to set up such and elaborate plan ? And why aren’t they being exposed for murder and throwing the world into a bigger mess than it already was? Why are they being protected?

    There are reasonable explanations from credible sources that explain everything much more clearly than these elaborate plots.

    And my first thought was Al Qaeda when it happened. OBL went on to take credit for it. It just really isn’t that much of a mystery.

    I’m sure I’m preaching to the choir.

  63. Guess I have more to learn. Never too old, thats why Im in college. 🙂

  64. Bush “saw” the whole thing on TV even before it was televised and he was not at all shocked to hear the news (while he was reading to kids holding a book upside down) as if it was a common occurence.

  65. Nas, in order to be correct you would have to say that Bush did not APPEAR shocked to hear the news. No one but Bush could say what he was really feeling. True? I looked at the video of him reading the book and it didn’t appear to be upside down to me. However, IF it were true that the book was upside down I would think that that would point to the fact that he WAS visibly shaken. Wouldn’t you agree?

    I think these allegations of some govt conspiracy about the facts in this case would be more related to perhaps a coverup of govt/cia/fbi bumbling rather than a coverup of who the terrorists were.

  66. Lynn, I agree with you that he did not “appear” shocked but having an amused look …?

    Yes I also agree that holdng the book upside down would indicate that he was shaken – but BEFORE IT HAPPENED?!!! What does that say?

    Besides that how come they had found ID’s of hijackers intact at the site of the crime? How do you explain an American diplomat in Saudis saying (or admitting) that he was asked to provide for photo ids of certain saudi pilots? Why were the Islamists, Jihadis in bars before the incident? Why did firemen say that there were explosions in the building BEFORE the planes hit? Why were there no immediate pics of Pentagon damage and why was it hit on part of the building where repair work was going on. Why were there no pics of planes in the later released pocitures of the pentagon? Why ? Why? Many more questions…

  67. References please Nas. for the fireman and for Bush watching it BEFORE it happened.

    And I vividly remember live coverage of the Pentagon burning in a box on the lower left hand of my screen as the main screen was covering the Twin Towers. Probably CNN.

    The upside down book was, I believe photoshopped by people irritated by Bushes slow response.

    Also, they had no need to use the passports to ID the hijackers. They used their real names. They were on the flight manifest. They were almost the only non-citizens with Arab names on the flight. (They knew they were looking for Arabs because of some of the info from airplane communications and phone calls from the flights). The passports were really irrelevant.

    Anyway, members of AQ and Osama Bin Laden himself have taken credit for it. They have certainly commited other acts of terror. Why is it so hard to believe they committed this one?

    As for Islamists in bars? Pullease. That surprises me NOT AT ALL. They’re often a bunch of bloody hypocrites. For many it’s a way of controlling others not living a morally correct life. Fundamentally they are cowards afraid of facing life with all it’s challenges and complexities so they find a noble way to commit suicide. It’s disgusting.

  68. I am so enjoying this debate!

  69. Sandy, there are many videos online for firemen and Bush watching it before. He even admitted to lying. Did you not hear of this before?

    One of the videos:

    “Anyway, members of AQ and Osama Bin Laden himself have taken credit for it.”


  70. Also, Sandy, listen to Jim Marrs about the biggest cover up in history. Why no answers to the many questions? Do the people not deserve to hear the answers? Is this not country based on freedom of the people?

    What is the truth behind Building 7, why did it collapse AFTER it was reported on the news?

  71. @Nas,

    Welcome back…

    Surely you know that fires can cause explosions. That is not evidence of a controlled demolition as some explosions are expected when you have a raging fire over a large area filled with normal office equipments made of plastic components.

    Again, for the controlled demolition theory to stick, you need to think about how a large project like that could have been executed in a building full of people.

    Anyone can make claims, but a rational person should not view them as credible until those claims are supported with evidence. The evidence presented in your first video is very weak.

    “What is the truth behind Building 7”

    I assume you have read the NIST Report on the collapse of building 7 and somehow found it to be false? If not read it and tell us specifically how the findings are not accurate and how all the independent companies involved were part of a large government conspiracy.


    Nas, I would love to hear your take on that interview with President Bush’s chief of staff who had walked into the classroom and told him about the attack.

    I thought that that link you provided was very odd. It was at times very difficult for me to understand and I don’t understand why someone would be talking over the supposed ‘witness’ telling us what he is saying instead of just letting us hear it for ourselves. I quit watching it after that because, without credibility, it seemed a pointless waste of time.

    Nas, were planes hijacked and crashed into the WTC and the Pentagon or are you suggesting that it never happened?

    IF it DID happen, who do you think did it? And WHY did they do it?

  73. 9/11 is the most shameful insult to human intelligence as well as to the intelligence of the American citizens. It’ was totally staged from the inside (inside the West) and was actually an international conspiracy. By saying “international” I mean that are involved institutions which are not governmental but corporative. The corporations by definition are global, then international. It’s not involved only the US government,the US Gov has only enforced the methods and the tools in order to achieve the goal. Who rally wields the power are the financial institutions. In the conspiracy are involved the Deutch Bank, Morgan and Stanley, all the major air carriers,and all the major oil companies. This event is not even connected to the war in Afghanistan and Iraq as many people who advocates the conspiracy theory believe, 9/11 is connected with the financial crisis.

  74. @Nas

    It was played all over the news including the Arabic new stations. I don’t know how people missed it.

  75. Thanks M0Q,
    It is not “my” evidence but one of the many, many videos out there. Firefighters are obviously more on the know because of their experience. Of course everyone has their opinion. But looking at all the evidences and less on answers, how should we see it? Why was it immediately concluded that it was OBL orchasratating such a clever plan sitting in a cave miles and miles away? Who is OBL BTW?
    Lynn, I agree that the video was not clear and I thought the same but as I watched it, it got better and there are more interesting facts towards the end. Check it out pls.

    The response on Bush’s face was a calm one – almost like he expected it – that is how it seemed to me and he did say that he saw it on TV when it was even on TV. I mean as a president of a country, we expect him to show some kind of concern at least. Getting up at once, or questioning the chief of staff, or have a worried expression? If I was a president, I would leave at once. I mean this is not something that happens everyday.

    I am not saying that it didn’t happen but it did not happen the way we are made to see it or believe. I mean there is more to it. Who did it and why? I did mention it before in another thread but that would only make the whole thing very complicated. I find it hard to believe that such high security structures could be targeted so easily. Or that the debris was almost powered dust – not chunks of slabs as would be case of a falling building. Or that only things needed to “prove” who the criminals were could be salvaged from the mess.

  76. Sandy, I expected this video fom you. Thanks for that but did you see OBL in that video? Do you really think it is him? Play other OBL vids sisde by side. This guy has different facial structures, mannerisms, expressions …etc.

    The first time I saw this video, I could tell at once that this was not him and many others saw that too,.

  77. Waw, Nas, you studied the face and expressions of OBL???
    I’ve read the book by Carmen Bin Ladin, and she is quite convinced he was behind it.
    And she knew him personally, so I give her opinion more weight.

  78. ‘If I was a president, I would leave at once. I mean this is not something that happens everyday’

    Well, good thing you aren’t president and DON’T work around children because when you are with children you have to be in total control of your emotions so as not to traumatize them. How long was the president there? Another couple of minutes? Why should he make a big dramatic scene? That is NOT a Presidential way to behave?

    I take it you did not check out the link that I provided? Read it and then maybe you will get a better feel for what was happening at the time.

  79. ‘I find it hard to believe that such high security structures could be targeted so easily’

    As good as security might be in this country we do NOT, even today AFTER 9/11, we do not have giant force fields around our buildings in order to protect from airplanes. LOL

  80. Lynn…

    Your link above describes perfectly what people who saw it live saw. While watching the news, the story was broken into by the announcement that a small plane had hit the tower. Actually at FIRST they said the WTC was on fire and weren’t sure if it was an explosion or what had caused it. As I mentioned above in my post the news anchors were saying or guessing it to be “pilot error” or a heart attack etc. but they didn’t really know. As they were talking about what might have caused it and tossing around possibilities and the choppers were filming the burning tower the second plane slammed into the other tower and immediately they said that this is not a mistake and probably a terror strike. I knew myself immediately it was a terror strike. One plane into the WTC…maybe a heart attack or a horrible thing gone wrong with the plane, but two it was not an accident. In that moment everyone watching understood it was a terror strike even without being told. It is easy to fill in the blanks after the fact, but watching as it occurred in real time it was not so cut and dry as it appears. There was a lot of confusion even for the TV anchors reporting and as I said at first no one immediately jumped to a terror strike conclusion. Then the reports started coming in of the other strikes and it was obvious what was going on.

  81. You can’t blame Bush for his lack of expression upon hearing news of that tragedy…it’s pretty much the same face he had when he signed away the lives of thousands …aka Iraq War.

    His actions were par for the course for his tenure as president….an unfeeling robot interested in only the bottom line of his bank balance.

  82. “Of course everyone has their opinion. But looking at all the evidences and less on answers, how should we see it? ”

    All the video shows is observations and jumping to unsupported conclusions. Yes people have opinions, but opinions should not be taken seriously unless they can show evidence. The fact is there are large studies which follow methodologies for gathering evidence, reviews, experiments, diverse independent entities, etc. That is certainly a process that produces results that can be relied on.

    Again, have you reviewed these documents and are you ready to show us how they are false?

    Regarding AQ executing these operations, read my earlier comments. You can review the documents of the 911 commission and tell us where are the errors in the investigation.

  83. Coolred – Bush almost always had the same expression that of a DOLT! If there was some kind of conspiracy going on there was no way that he could have been the planner of it and no way that the planner would risk sharing it with HIM! LOL

  84. @Nas,
    And YOU said exactly what I expected you to say. Why believe what is right in front of you when you can concoct some other conspiracy.

    Ok. So. Who did it and why. Who has benefitted? The world as a whole is not the better for it. The US isn’t better off. Israel??? Don’t tell me…drumroll….was it…was it….AN ISRAELI PLOT???? OMG!!!!!

    As for why people would think OBL- he had done other attacks before this one, and was always threatening. Are you TOTALLY unfamiliar with his history?

    And yes. I do think it was him in the video.

  85. Lynn, I, too am glad that I am not President, lol. However what I meant was, he need not scream and traumatize the kids; he excuse himself, politely; people do things like that all the time with kids or not and kids are not so delicate that they get traumatized if anyone makes a sudden movement.

    So you are saying that to Bush, avoiding the kids being traumatised is more important than people and buildings falling apart. He could not care about the big, big diaster happening in USA; he would rather wait till break and then take his leave very, very gently and slip out the school building so that he will not scare the children.

    Sorry I missed the link that you have referred, I will go to that link.

    No Bush was not the planner, he was the puppet.

    M0Q, I have reviewed the link the last time we talked on this very same subject and at that time, I had given you an opposing link and the topic just fizzled out.

    Coolred, I agree that Bush always more or less had the same kind of face so its really not that so surprising that he could not react. Do you think its botox?

  86. ‘he would rather wait till break and then take his leave very, very gently and slip out the school building so that he will not scare the children’

    Break? What ‘Break’? There was no ‘break’. He was making an appearance at a school. How long do you think he was planning on hanging around there? I don’t know how often you have met the leader of your country but here, if the president is visiting your school it would be a very, very big deal and there is a LOT involved in something like that news reporters and security as well as the school’s special preparations. What would be the point in taking a 15 minute stop and cutting it down to 10 when you have no idea what is really going on but you KNOW that your staff is already on it? It is not just about being traumatized it is about disappointment. You know, overreactions are not as accepted in this country as it is in the Middle East.

  87. It’s so sickening to see many on this forum and many moslems (especially saudis) in a state of denial about 9/11.

    As an American and as a human being, it is very hurtful!

  88. Anyone…

    I am jsut curious…in Lynn’s link above Bush was spoken to twice. The first time he was told a plane had hit the WTC…ok…really bad but not an immediate leap in the mind to a terrorist plot. The second time he was whispered to he was told that another plane hit and the USA was under attack. I am wondering how long it took for him to leave from the second message. If he was not able to ask questions as per his secretary in the link above I am thinking it might take a second or two to grasp the enormity of what was going on.

    Does anyone know how long it took after the second message which is the one that told him “America is under attack” to excuse himself. Could not have been long…I can’t imagine his guys who were getting info would let him sit there for a long time…decisions had to be made and fast.

  89. Moq, *opinions should not be taken seriously unless they can show evidence*
    Utterly agree with you here!

    Sandy, it was zionist reptillian Grey men.

    I think people believe in these un-supported conspiracy theories because they are lazy. It’s just lazy thinking. Nas will not read any of the real official investigation reports? Nobody who ”does” conspiracy theories will.
    It’s so much easier to just atch a couple of loonies make un supported far fetched claims than dealing with reality.
    Because if you realize reality that would mean that your ”group”, your ”team” has been doing something really wicked and evil and that in turn would mean that you actually should be doing something to stop it.

    So much easier for the lazy people to just sit back and say it ”They did it themselves”.

  90. @Nas,

    “No Bush was not the planner, he was the puppet.”

    Now enlighten us on who is the planner and what evidence do you have for it?

    “M0Q, I have reviewed the link the last time we talked on this very same subject and at that time, I had given you an opposing link and the topic just fizzled out.”

    No you have not provided any evidence in a link before. All what I have saw so far is the same old links to conspiracy theorists who do not provide credible evidence.

    Nas, you simply always follow the same line in your arguments. You never study the subject at hand. Then claim you have evidence, which is easily debunked. You do it with every subject. I did not forget your video made by a creationists group, which you claimed as scientific evidence against Evolution. Do you see a pattern, it is always a video with no peer reviews and no methodology for treating evidence 🙂

  91. @ Harry – ‘As an American and as a human being, it is very hurtful’

    I’m American and It isn’t hurtful to me. I don’t think Jews should be ‘hurt’ by those who say the Holocaust never happened. I think it just speaks to that person’s ignorance is all.

  92. Harry, Don’t you just wonder how much the culture of conspiracy theories and denials of 9/11 etc help to create people like our newest Jihadi in Texas? In her post about him Carol asks Why? And I think that this topic should be considered.

    So, while I don’t find it personally ‘hurtful’ I DO find it dangerous!

  93. I think you have a point there Lynn.
    All these lies, not about conspiracy theories alone, but about Christians and Jews being pigs and monkeys, about everybody else being less than animals, or even only ”breathing machines”, all western women being whores, Americans eating iraqi babies, all this stuff, if you are indoctrinated with this stuff, and combine it in a belief in some magical invisible sky-daddy who likes killing infidels and will reward martyrs with orgies and virgins for all eternity…

  94. @Aafke – ‘I think you have a point there Lynn’ and I am going to guess that ,while I may not necessarily agree with him, that might be the reason that someone like Jerry might be concerned and say ‘Shame on Carol’ for this post.

  95. Memberships are now open for the Flat Earth Society. Please submit your nominations by March 15, 2011. I have submitted the following names:

    Mohammed Azad Ali Shah

  96. I do not necessarily agree or favor decisions made by the G.W. administration but perhaps a step should be taken back to look with a differing eye on what some may view as a lack of appropriate response by G.W.

    When the first plane hit the WTC there was surprise and concern. I can only imagine the scrambling that started to gather facts, analysis and reaction or plans. Then the second plane hits within a matter of minutes. America is under attack. G.W., America’s Commander & Chief, is not at a secure location. While there are always contingency plans for safety and security of the leader of a country with emergency exit plans, due to the fluidity of 9/11 with multiple attacks, diversions and chaos, plus the attacks taking place at the same time GW’s location at a public school was known and broadcast live, it probably made abrupt changed plans for the security detail.

  97. Okay, American Bedu – do you see now why posting conspiracy videos is not the best idea? It just brings the wackos out of the woodwork… It feeds into that desperate need to hate the United States or Israel or someone or something – anything. Some of the conversations above turn my stomach because I know there are many more people out there in the world who believe this stuff…like the Saudi boy whose life is destroyed now because he was taught to hate instead of help make the world a better place. Please don’t post another conspiracy story again. It only feeds the fire.

  98. Lynn – ” It is not just about being traumatized it is about disappointment”. So he didn’t want to disappoint the kids, teachers ….? Never mind America being attacked but people at the school or organisers should not be disappointed?

    Lynn, I understand what you are saying but to remain so calm is perceived by many as not a responsible leader. Thats all. Why did he lie that he saw it on TV when it was not even teleivised?

    I am not saying it’s this or that. All I am saying is that there are so many questions ununswered, why are there no answers. This is why I am leaning more towards “the inside job theory”.

    M0Q – “No you have not provided any evidence in a link before” Maybe you did not read my comment with the link at that time but it was not my evidence – it was peer study site. You should have read it before replying.

    What about the rights of people to hold a different view.

    ” I did not forget your video made by a creationists group” – lol! Again showing that what you belief or your opinions are the abolute truth. Others cannot have their own thoughts.

    ” You never study the subject at hand.” – don’t be so judemental. How do you know what I have studied or didn’t. How do you know how much of time I had spent on any subject? This is a blog not a science study group site where one can lay out all the so-called evidences.

    Just because someone does not agree with you, doesn’t mean that they are wrong. Don’t be putting on airs. Nothing will be credible to you as long as you prefer to be adamant and stick to your beliefs without even reading. Its up to you. And by the way, what are the your answers to all the ununswered questions? Yes give me some link and ask me to study it. That is your way.

    Maybe you should join the live debate to be held on 6th March at University of Colorado addressing the collapse of the three (yes, three) WTC buildings. You might learn a thing or two.

  99. Lynn, on February 28, 2011 at 7:24 pm said:

    ‘But who created, financed, trained Taliban/Al-Qaida?’

    I hear that all the time but, to me, all that really proves is that you shouldn’t bother to help Muslims because you can’t trust them not to turn on you.

    U really dont know the motives of creating Taliban/Al-Qaida or u try not to know? They were created to suppress USSR during cold war not for any humanity. …Hmmm creating terrorists for humanity and help and people supporting such creation…what a shame!!

    U know how to make ur own judgement based on ur own irrational opinion just because of religious prision u see. Just like that Terrorists and terrorist supporters have similar opinion like you to take revenge of killers. Then why to condemn them when u support terrorist creator? Why double standard? Condemn both terrorists, their acts and their creator or support all but not double standard and hypocrisy. \

    Can we make some truthful judgment and condemn all wrong things without forming opinion based on religion? A crime is crime irrespective of the religion of the criminal

  100. @Harry,

    I always ignore u becoz ur statement doesnt deserve response. period.

    Hi All,

    I never denied that it was done by Osama..But I also cant digest that there is transparency over the incident. I never belived following info before really watching this documentary.

    See what Bush is doing:

    Section 1. “As the attack took place, Mr. Bush was on his way to an elementary school in Florida . When informed of the first plane hitting the World Trade Center, where terrorists had struck just eight years prior, Bush just decided to go ahead with his photo opportunity.”

    Section 1. “When the second plane hit the tower, his chief of staff entered the classroom and told Mr. Bush the nation is under attack.”

    Section 1. “Mr. Bush just sat there and continued to read My Pet Goat.”

    Section 1. Nearly seven minutes passed with nobody doing anything.”

  101. Some more points from the documentary to be seen:

    5) All flights from US cancelled. Even Ricky Martin could not travel and stranded. Only and only flight that left US was Osama Bin Laden and his team. Why Why Why???

    6) 15 of the 19 suspects were Saudis, but none of the suspect and their relatives were intorrogated.

    7) The reason for bombing Afghanistan was for Oil gas pipline from Caspean sea to Via Afghanistan by company-UNOCAL in Houston, and to make Hamid karazi president, who was former adviser to UNOICAL

    8) On March 19, 2001 Bush invited group of Taliban from Afghanistan to US to increase the ties.

    9) On 13th September, Bush was in Saudi Embassy for dinner party instead of knowing that 15 culprits were from Saudi and Osama was funded by Saudi.

    10) US soldiers never attacked where Osama Bin Laden was hiding for 2 months but killing civilians. Why WHy WHy?

    More interesting questions u will find when u see full movie.

  102. LOL @ Loose Change…Those who believe it have some Loose Screws in their brains. It started out a work of fiction…Dylan Avery is a writer folks and profited from this tremendously.

    “Dylan Avery is the writer, director, and editor of the Loose Change films. He is from Oneonta, New York, and currently lives in San Diego, California. After being denied admission twice by Purchase College’s film school,[1]

    Avery planned to make a fictional thriller about a group of friends who discover the September 11, 2001 attacks were an “inside job”.[2]

    Along the way Avery himself stated that he had become convinced of this theory.[3][4] His latest film, Loose Change 9/11: An American Coup, became available on September 22, 2009. It is narrated by Daniel Sunjata and produced by Matthew Brown of Fort Worth, Texas and Korey Rowe of Oneonta, New York.

    Avery appeared on BBC’s 9/11 Conspiracy Files in February 2007 and on CNN in March 2008. He also appeared on the History and National Geographic channels in September 2009.”

    Just as interesting Loose Change is “Screw Loose Change” The link is below…

  103. @Sparky you are the typical brainwashed guy, fortunately in your country (country that I love) the majority understands what’s happening .

  104. chris73, are you TRYING to posit that the majority of Americans believe 911 was an inside job? Is that what you mean by “the majority understands what’s happening?” Please use your own propaganda to brainwash yourself and enjoy it while doing it. Hell have a Bin Laden Nescafe while you are at it.

    I know what time it is. Please be specific when you say “the majority understands what’s happening”. I would certainly hope that the majority of American people understand what’s happening.

    First, thank you for loving my country but people like you will Never be Able to use the poison of one idiot to try to undermine it. It is sad that the majority may NOT do simple research like looking into the source of a piece of information or take the time to look at the rebuttal.

  105. Millions of americans believe in a heaven some place beyond the clouds // where lives JESUS &
    GOD his father. Such nonsense brought about
    through the centuries of religious brainwashing.

    Thus present day where religious organizations
    having yearly turnovers of £MILLIONS / in giving
    such promise to sheep they are fleecing / that
    on death of an human frame HEAVEN AWAITS.

    Anybody having even the one working brain cell
    is not going to believe such utter nonsense / as
    allow their children / being the victimes of such
    halfbaked nonsense / of some fictional heaven.

    It being the same in the political world / where
    though generations of brainwashing / there be
    those whom are so brainwashed they just but
    believe anything they are told without question
    while others whom still having at least the one working brain cell / Question the brainwashing.

    Of course the such situation becomes complex
    the first cave man or cave girl / when having an
    moment to themselves // asked the questions

    Thousands of years later / the same questions

    Thus it having been a long journey for humanity
    a journey on an path with its many many pitfalls.

    Thus in time begin gain depth in understanding
    not by finding what is right thus knowing in truth.
    NO / NO / NO / NO / we do it the AMERICAN way

    Such but to explain to Americans how hard it be
    for them to grasp reality // it be but their thinking
    process somewhat // but lingers in the illusion.


    Such coming with Americans independence
    from the British // where the British in having
    the more developed brain / Yet their gaining
    independence AMERICA // set on course as
    the worlds leading military /// political power.

    The problem lacking the judgement the skill
    for such a position / though it was attempted
    in talking some sense to them by the British
    such words of wisdom / but fell on deaf ears.

    Thus being the problem for all nations / the
    worlds leading military power / in falling far
    short of such understanding as experience
    for the role. Such result for humanity having
    been dire / in unnessery wars / destruction
    untold death / suffering // which could have
    been avoided in but using common sense.

    AnswerS to much of the worlds problems
    be the UNITED NATIONS should BUT BE
    A UNITED NATIONS / no situation where
    the most powerful of nations make deals
    with the other /their having no concern for
    others // where only towards themselves.
    Thus a situation that true representation
    is available unto all / that justice be done.

    The purpose of creation be that it sustain
    the human form / such the purpose of the
    human form that via heart / brain/ there be
    individual development in understanding
    as experience // through development / in
    time all knowledge of creation be known
    in time the unfolding of the / Spiritual Self
    thus all becoming clarity in understaning
    where the purpose of creation is reveiled
    where life are not based on beliefs ideas
    but the clarity of understanding upon the
    very practical experience of spiritual self.

  106. @Md. Azad Ali Shah/Nas,

    All your point just prove, bush was an idiot, not qualified to be the head of a country , he is certainly ni einstein and these points just prove that he is slow to react as well. the fact is, planes crashed into blds and killed people, major planning went into this killing and the execution was done by a bunch of madmen who happened to be saudi’s. If it was an american inside job , then I don’t belive these killers gave up their lives for an american inside job.
    As for talking to relatives of the pensylvania crash, NAS you are free to interview my brotheror better still his wife, her cousin dies on that plane.

  107. @Sparky I think that the dog on your picture is smarter than you. Get informed and above all get knoledgable about the subject before talking rubbish

  108. Sparky, Radha, nice comments.

    William wallace, nice bit of paste-copy.
    Bedu I think this qualifies as spam, it’s paste-copy and completely off topic. I delete stuff like this on my own blog.

  109. Radha – I will be happy to talk to your family members but I have not said anything about victims. Maybe you meant someone else who did mention them.

  110. cris73 Insulting me or my avatar pic to defend your position…Just proves how weak IT (your position) and YOU are…

    I’ve done my homework. I don’t watch a youtube video made by a film student who started out doing a project, A Work of Fiction let me remind you, who then got convinced of his Fictional Work along the way, turned into a theory and found he could market it to conspiracy theorists AND make a hell of a lot of money too seriously. Nor should you unless you just love dodging responsibility and not taking accountability for the hatred that is or was being spun to inspire such great acts of hatred.

    I have watched Loose Change (I can’t even take the name seriously…it is quite comicable to me) AND the rebuttal and have done other reading to come to my conclusion.

    If you want to believe in Loose Change, it is up to you. That is the great thing about my country you love is Free Speech and Free Will. Don’t see much of that everywhere else in the world. This is the country mind you where you believe a government or perhaps a “shadow government” would mass murder its own people. You need to get the grip here. If there was any such conspiracy, the guilty would have been found by now. Your tone leads me to conclude you are nothing more than an abusive person who would take away my free will and right to my opinion if you had a chance.


  111. Nas,

    “Maybe you should join the live debate to be held on 6th March at University of Colorado addressing the collapse of the three (yes, three) WTC buildings. You might learn a thing or two.”

    UFO hunters, Big foot fans, Area 51 nutters, etc. all have a conventions and debates. They all still have an issue of not having proof of the claims

    “What about the rights of people to hold a different view.”

    I do not have an issue with you voicing an opinion and not even holding a convention and a debate. The beauty of the free world is even Nutters can have their say 🙂 However, when you voice an opinion expect there will be a counter opinion and if your opinion is not based on facts and evidence, it has a high probability of being rejected.

  112. ‘Lynn, I understand what you are saying but to remain so calm is perceived by many as not a responsible leader’

    I guess that is just another one of those ‘cultural misunderstandings’ then. See, in MY culture, leaders are expected to remain calm at ALL times.

  113. I just had this wonderful image in my mind of Bush jumping up and down and starting to yell and scream and cry….


    btw, can you imagine the comments here if he had actually done that?

  114. I just nominated cris73 as a member of the Flat Earth Society :)-

  115. the american government does whatever they want. not what the people want. if you wanted an Amber alert set up, it would take many missing dead children to get it before the government will listen. americans protest with a permission. that is a controlled environment. the media is also controlled. you see only what is allowed. controlled. if the government wants to practice poisoning americans without them knowing it. they will. and blame it on someone else. it happens.

    flat earth society membership? how did you know about it?

  116. @gia – Again I say, whatever…

  117. Aafke-Art / I give thanks for your kind words.

    In regard to being paste-copy such remark
    but a reflection of the deep mistrust your in
    having for people due to / natural changing
    circumstances in human development / in
    holding an inability in adapting to change.

    Such does not make you a bad person / its
    just you having a similar problem as many
    to bring a balance to the spiritual aspect of
    life / an much needed balance the spiritual.

    I will come back to such problem in giving
    some words as how such be best solved.

    Firsly I must say your artwork is rich as its
    depth in its inspired finished presentation.
    It seem your having spent many a life with
    an paintbrush as /a canvas close at hand.

    In regard to the horse // such represents
    the human / where the senses be free to
    run wild // as alternative in ones senses
    being brought under control / /mastered.

    Of course one should be free to run wild
    as nature intended/ yet at the same time
    the ultimate aim of humanity is knowing
    the spiritual self // such is only achieved
    when the senses brought under control
    where through meditation ones senses
    be turned inwards / thus bringing about
    a unfolding of knowing the spiritual self.

    It would be to your gain if you accepted
    such natural spiritual progress that all
    must go through / and not fear change.

    At present time humanity blessed with
    Prem Rawat / he be not only a spiritual
    teacher / but he an teacher of teachers
    of the very highest standard / thus it be
    your aid in spiritual development / but
    it in coming from the / best of the best.

    On Pc search put (words of peace) on
    site you’ll will find a large selection of
    videos of Prem Rawat speak of one’s
    turning the senses inwards //// where
    through meditation / in bringing such
    unfolding /revealing true spiritual self.

    The beauty you put on canvas is but
    an spark of the beauty that be within
    through inner meditation one’s able
    to focus on the essence of creation
    where know the artist of all creation.

  118. M0Q, thanks for allowing me to voice my opinion. But my opinions as I have mentioned came from lot of unanswered questions. and there are plenty of professionals now questioning WTC event. There are so many suspicious pieces of puzzle. There are hundreds and hundreds of pieces. If there was answers then people will be satisifed. Why do people march the streets demanding answers?

    This is an exclusive intereview with a Chemical Interview and it is one of damning evidence. You don’t have to agree with it but its very interesting.

    Thermite is a confirmed find at the building site.

    Lynn, if that is the way leaders are supposed to react then I accept it – maybe he did a good job of it. Are they supposed to lie also?

  119. Nas, “Thermite is a confirmed find at the building site.

    Again you are citing from Loose Change. I have posted a rebuttal to it pretty much putting into question the producer and his motives and you do nothing but cite his documentary AGAIN. It seems you haven’t taken the time to actually view the rebuttal. FYI Avery was arrested last month on heroin drug charges. Please I mean his Loose Change IMO is a form of a psychodelic drug. I agree the trip is sooo good. Please don’t mistake me for a Gudaffi who claims everybody who disagrees with him and doesn’t love him is taking psychodelic drugs. Zenga Zenga HAHAH LOL.

    The interview which mind you is part of another DOCUMENTARY which people again stand to profit from. I have no problem with people seeking the truth, but am completely disgusted by people who do it to turn a buck at the expense of the lives that were lost The interview provides damning evidence of Nothing except this little man Bastille is unsure of everything he claims! FYI thermite doesn’t explode. Yes, Mr. Basile it melts holes…not many of those seen at the WTC rather clean cuts. Because he said there was a patent DOES NOT mean it is available or was used. It is amazing the firemen could stand in melted steel, would you not agree? He cites a bachelors degree. WOW. If he were any kind of expert the should have been letting those credentials and qualification out like F-bombs. He doesn’t even have proper testing equipment. Come on Nas! Come on Nas! Use your intellect…I’m sure you have some.. everybody does…It was difficult listening to him. Rihanna was calling to me asking me to listen to her song “We Ride”. He got his chips, but won’t say who gave them to him. RED FLAG Number #1 Holy Lord. Perhaps he needs to go back to graduate school and he will understand more…

    “One molecule, described by the EPA’s Erik Swartz, was present at levels “that dwarfed all others”: 1,3-diphenylpropane. “We’ve never observed it in any sampling we’ve ever done,” Swartz said. He said it was most likely produced by the plastic of tens of thousands of burning computers.” The conspiracy theorists used the first part of his statement to come to the conclusion the reason for the presence of those chemicals was thermite. They TOTALLY IGNORED his second statement that it could be a breakdown of the burning of materials present in the WTC. That a lot of chemicals found at the WTC site are composite of thermites does NOT PROVE there are a product of thermite. These chemicals were present in everything from the cooling system to the gypsom walls.

    However, consiracy don’t use Mr. Swartz following statement, “it was most likey produced by the plastic of tens of thousands of burning computers.”
    It was said that most likely produced by the plastic of tens of thousands of burning computers.” Two integral elements of thermite seem to BE MISSING from the traces of elements which were aluminum OXIDE and barium nitrate. In addition, the quanities of the thermite theory and and the amount of actual trace elements found thoroughly disprove the thermite theory.

    I highly recommend these two sources which cite numerous sources from both sides:

  120. @Nas,

    Oh, No not another video as damning evidence!!!

    Again, what you accept as evidence is weak and you do not even bother to review if the so called evidence is even telling you anything new.

    – The man in the video claims that there was thermite that can only be made by a complex process. He never elaborated on that info except saying that. No detailed paper of what the compound chemical structure is? What process used to make it? What his experiments were? and Certainly no peer reviews to verify his claims? Some “Daming” Evidence you got there.
    – Actually thermite was confirmed in official reports, so there is no surprise there. However, thermite can be produced by burning plastic. A material found in the 10’s of thousands of computers and printers, which were in the building. The man just did not bother telling you this small fact. And you did not bother looking as you could have found that info by a simple google search..

    When someone tells you a wild claim, you should be asking questions and verifying if the claims are factual. Here are some real simple questions you seem to miss:

    – Let’s assume for the sake of argument that 911 is an inside job to support the wars. Wouldn’t the planes hitting the building produce the desired effect needed. Why is it necessary to bring the buildings down? Wouldn’t the burned ruined buildings standing for months have a stronger effect in reminding Americans of the attack and make it easier to support the war argument?
    – As I mentioned before, a controlled demolition is a very large project. For buildings like the WTC towers, it may take months to execute and require heavy equipments, drills, gutting of walls, electric cables to be wired all over the building to provide charge to the explosive, etc. A simple question all of these conspiracy jockeys never provide an answer to: How would a project like this be executed without anyone noticing, with the presence of 10,000’s of people at the site daily?

    Nas, holding opinions is ok, but do not pretend that they are rational opinions if they are based on illogical arguments and extremely weak evidence. I recommend that you do more research on counter arguments the next time a crook like the man on the video tries to sell Thermite, oops I mean magic Dust…

  121. @Nas – ‘Are they supposed to lie also?’

    Well, Nas. I think that leaders and politicians ALL over the world are probably pretty much the same. How do you know they are lying? Their mouths are moving! lol

  122. It a natural reaction of the criminal in removing
    such evidience / that would clarify whom guilty.

    There no doubt 9/11 was a crime self inflicted
    it is understanding the reasoning behind such
    act / americans find difficulty in understanding
    reasoning unclear because the level of active
    media brainwashing which Americans raised
    firstly planted deep in their unconscious brain
    taught in questioning the govt is anti american
    thus its the few whom ever having courage to
    question authority / their cry for justice / going
    unheard / in facing an tidal wave of corruption.

    An example come to mind of the early movie
    industry / movies were made in questioning
    such power of the govt // where questioning
    the structure’s of the USA’s political system
    in questioning WHY / little political power in
    the hands of people. The Real power held
    by the most wealthy // through their control
    of the federal reserve./ Where reality it but a
    few whom hold all power / where the reality
    it but few choosing/ whom being president
    it a few whom deciding whom holding what
    position in govt / it an few whom control the
    media propaganda //thus abled to spin out
    versions of propaganda / they find pleasing

    A example be with the early movie industry
    when it being realized the power of movies
    to influence the people / such the response
    of Govt was immediate in taking full control.

    An cruel govt media campaign against their
    own people was ruthless where the actors
    actresses as producers / writers / directors
    were accused of being communists / were
    accused of plotting / attempting bring down
    the Govt in destroying freedom democracy.

    The end result // the Govt took full control of
    the movie industry / in controlling its output.

    Thus the freedoms within a American movie industry short lived it being strangled at birth
    resulting with many decades with producing
    half baked nonsense /// as ever more action
    movies that being but only endless violence
    no plot which requiring an working brain cell
    just endless mindless pointless nonsense.

    An movie industry reduced to the production
    of garbage // where many movies produced
    being nought but an long advert for tobacco
    introducing children to tobacco where it but
    portrayed as a must in ones life // a natural
    part of living. // Where the dying soldier has
    a cigarette stuck in his mouth // such an act
    portrayed to people as an act of kindnesss.

    Millions dying as falling seriously ill through
    tobacco with its added dire / highly addictive chemicals // yet decade after decade such a
    poison allowed to be advertized & sold unto
    a uneducated public whom treated as idiots.

    Tobacco companies ever pouring $millions
    into the coffers of political parties // given as
    reward / where politicians turned a blind eye
    to the death &suffering that tobacco brought.

    Why do the people allow such acts of horror continue /where fail raise a voice in protest?.

    The answer ///// from birth the brainwashing
    via the media being so efficient / that people
    simply do not understand / They Are Victims
    of appalling abuse // those whom placed to
    defend their rights / in truth strip the people
    of their rights / but blinded by greed / power.

  123. @Sparky I don’t give a shit about Loose Change, for me the 9/11 issue is a serious thing which has serious global implications. I started gathering material just the days following the attack. That afternoon (for us in Europe it was afternoon) I had a weird feeliing, the second plane hadn’t struck yet and they were already talking about Bin Laden. It sounded very unusual and quite a bit of a stretch to an educated and “super-cultural” Italian like me.:D Over the years I have kept aside articles of many newspapers such as NYT, Washington Post, The Guardian, The Times, Pravda and so on, I have found so many shocking things that the weird feeling of that afternoon became day by day sheer awareness. It’s not about America and Muslims 9/11 try to look at the big picture, who benefits globally by such thing? The answer is: The West, always the West…the US always does the dirty job for the West. What I can do it’s just suggesting you to make some researches about 9/11, leaving the documentaries. By the way I’m writing a book about it. Try to be less American and be more citizen of the world. Cheers mate.

  124. Cris73…I have taken a look from outside the box.

    Saying that the 911 was an inside job IS a huge accusation. I think like an Alien most of the time although yes I can be quite “American” at times too.

    Exposing shocking things is fine, exposing corruption fine, exposing in general is fine. You know what I mean. But stringing something together and making sweeping accusations to make a PROFIT is irresponsible and IMO should be criminal in some cases esp. in regards to 911. We are talking about accusations of mass murder here and mass destruction and it is being pinned on the country that I love and respect and one in which I consider one of the best in the world.

    If I were to make such accusations against a person (calling them a mass murderer) and such accusations were based on falsehood or “weak evidence” that person could sue me in a court of law.

    Btw, do not think I agree with American Foreign Policy especially in the Middle East. I think it sucks. There were a hell of a lot of lies going around but mass murder, I need more proof. It doesn’t take research to know that war is a profitable business. Again if there were any such individuals within or without the USG or elsewhere in the world who orchestrated the 911 believe me they would have had charges SO SO SO laid on them by now.

    Since you believe such a topic 911 has huge global implication and I would agree, I would suggest taking a responsible approach. We all know what sells…I still advocate free speech but looking at the event from a detail orientated approach taking into account many sides and opinions in consideration is the only real convincible approach. I remember in sixth grade we were given a huge science project. We had to make a hypotheis and set up the experiment and draw conclusions. Often times people start out with a hypothesis and are hell bent in making sure it is correct without taking in all the possibilities and factors and ignoring what does not support their theory or hypothesis . There is a reason I do feel strongly about this 911 accusation. I have lived in Saudi Arabia for 16 years. The place where the majority of terrorists came from. I see what has been going on here. Are we going to go so far to say America calls ALL the shots in foreign countries a country like Saudi Arabia? I can ONLY Hope they could and would have a influence on so many aspects that need influencing. Saudi money has bought lawyers who have gotten them out of accountability. Saudi money has bought people! I have heard with my own ears Imans calling on death and destruction of Non Muslims (Kuffar). Saudis feel much more comfortable believing 911 was an inside job because it vindicates them who where the majority of terrorists came from. Then there are people who like yourself have “feelings’ and so forth come forth with outrageous accusations which have HUGE implications.

    If it can be proven without a doubt that the USG has done a 911 inside job, they have NO legitimacy. Is this your aim? The U.S. should start taking such accusations being pelted at them with a lot of seriousness!

    I don’t understand what you mean about having a feeling about a second plane not hitting. There are thousands of eye witnesses who have seen the planes hitting the building.

    Cheers and Peace

  125. William Wallace, Questioning the government is a Hallmark of being American! Please note the difference between “questioning” and launching “accusations”.

    Also, I think a lot of what you say actually makes sense and have visited the website of the person you referenced but it looks like he could easily be a cult leader.

  126. I just said that the CNN was mentioning Bin Laden minutes before the second plane struck.

  127. When I watched the news at 9-11, also in Europe, my first thought was: ”This is a terrorist attack and this time the instigators have committed suicide too, (instead of letting other people do the dirty work) because the Americans are going to drop The Bomb now, somewhere in the middle East”

    I think you had to be pretty dim, or completely devoid of knowledge, not to think of a terrorist attack at once, even if you were in Europe.

    I agree with Sparky’s comment.

  128. Chris, and how weird is that? You may not know it, but at the time he was behind a couple of other huge bombing attacks, his organization was active in many places in the world. It was to be the best educated guess one could make at that time.

  129. #Md. Azad Ali Shah
    7) The reason for bombing Afghanistan was for Oil gas pipline from Caspean sea to Via Afghanistan by company-UNOCAL in Houston, and to make Hamid karazi president, who was former adviser to UNOICAL

    Guess you mean UNOCAL.
    Always the ‘oil’, ‘gas’ .
    People never forget the learnings of their youth. But middle east oil doesn’t really matter for USA, but is of course of great importance for India, China and the rest of world.
    And regarding gas. USA has enough gas to last the next 100 years or more.

    The reason for invading Afghanistan, was that the Taliban government would give USA Bin Laden.

    But be happy in 10 years time USA is out of this part of the world, and there is no doubt that muslims will be very happy, especially to work together with the chinese. They know how to treat muslims well.

  130. Nas…as for thermite at the WTC:

    “12. Did the NIST investigation look for evidence of the WTC towers being brought down by controlled demolition? Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? The combination of thermite and sulfur (called thermate) “slices through steel like a hot knife through butter.”

    NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.

    The responses to questions number 2, 4, 5 and 11 demonstrate why NIST concluded that there were no explosives or controlled demolition involved in the collapses of the WTC towers.

    Furthermore, a very large quantity of thermite (a mixture of powdered or granular aluminum metal and powdered iron oxide that burns at extremely high temperatures when ignited) or another incendiary compound would have had to be placed on at least the number of columns damaged by the aircraft impact and weakened by the subsequent fires to bring down a tower. Thermite burns slowly relative to explosive materials and can require several minutes in contact with a massive steel section to heat it to a temperature that would result in substantial weakening. Separate from the WTC towers investigation, NIST researchers estimated that at least 0.13 pounds of thermite would be required to heat each pound of a steel section to approximately 700 degrees Celsius (the temperature at which steel weakens substantially). Therefore, while a thermite reaction can cut through large steel columns, many thousands of pounds of thermite would need to have been placed inconspicuously ahead of time, remotely ignited, and somehow held in direct contact with the surface of hundreds of massive structural components to weaken the building. This makes it an unlikely substance for achieving a controlled demolition.”

    Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC towers, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard that was prevalent in the interior partitions.

    Here is the link to all the questions from the NIST website about 9/11:

    Here is the link for the NIST website itself:

  131. M0Q,
    In your response, you are saying that if 911 was an inside job lets assume that it is to support the wars so how come not allow the planes alone for the job and why the need to use explosives. But that is only assuming that it is to suport wars. How can you say that it is to support wars? That is the apparent perception but isn’t it possible that there are other motives?

    ” a controlled demolition is a very large project. For buildings like the WTC towers, it may take months to execute and require heavy equipments, drills, gutting of walls, electric cables to be wired all over the building to provide charge to the explosive, etc”

    I agree that it needs lots of planning and is a huge project, then why was Building 7 bought down so fast on the same day? You know Building 7 was not hit. It was pulled down as ordered by the owner. He said to “pull” it down – a term used to demolish buildings. Why did this building go down after it was mentioned in the news. Just my questions.

    Thanks for the links. I have already been to the nist site.

  132. @Nas,

    There also a NIST Report on the cause of the collapse for building 7, look it up yourself this time. The cause was not a control demolition. It was damage from falling debris. Note a controlled demolition requires explosive. How do you think explosives did not go off when a building was burning for almost 8 hrs?

    Also, note the Pull it down, was in reference to the decision to stop the fire fighting operation as the building was becoming unstable.

    Again, you accept weak evidence. A sentence that can be interpreted in multiple ways is not evidence, especial when the claim is so big and the events show that explosives would be impossible to have been present for such a long time in a burning building.

  133. Please, all of you should read “Shrub” by Molly Ivins, a G.W. Bush’s biography written in 1999 only few months prior to his election. You could have a deep insight on who Bush father and son are.

  134. And while reading that biography, pls find out who his wife’s father was.

  135. Hello all! I am a student working on a project in political psychology. I have created a poll that should help me identify any trends leading up to the 2012 Presidential Election. The poll will only take a minute or two, and all of your answers would be extremely beneficial for my study.
    I appreciate your time, and your political interest!
    Find the poll here…


    This is a very interesting video that I advise everyone to watch…takes over 2 hours but well worth it. Arguing about what happened ON 9/11 pales in comparison to what happened leading up to it (and after)…according to all the documented proof this guy puts forth. Very compelling.

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