Saudi Arabia/USA – MissRepresentation is Universal

 

As I watched the video about the misrepresentation of women in the United States, the thoughts that went through my mind is that this video could have featured women in just about any country.  If women in the United States are striving to change perceptions of how they are portrayed in the media, then it perhaps makes it easier to understand the larger challenges that Saudi women have to face and overcome in regards to global perceptions.

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48 Responses

  1. Do you think that if women refused to participate in this kind of exploitation things would change? My ex-husband told me that I didnt look like a woman that he would have married but I have a good heart. Then he divorced me and is now engaged to a much younger woman. He is Muslim too. So this kind of things is a worldwide problem.

  2. Well, I think things are much better for American women than in most other places in the world. However, it is not good for us in the US. This video just makes me feel really awful, and I do not know how we can force men to treat us better. The real problem is greed and the media, and until we make laws to reign these people in, I don’t see it getting better, and to make it worse, many of the people in media that put women in such degrading roles are themselves women.

    I was much heartened this week when I heard that Fox News was not allowed to open a branch in Canada, because Canadian regulators feel they lie too much. Ya think?

  3. Fox is no more untruthful in their reporting than MSNBC or CCN. All networks have their followers. My grandmother would have sworn on a stack of Bibles if an article was in the National Inquirer it just ahd to be true. It is up to each individual to research and find what they can of the truth. I do agree it is all about money. My solution for me and my family is to simply turn off the TV .

  4. Have to disagree with you, Linda. Time and time again Fox has been proven to purposely mislead their audience. They are KNOWN for it, and are only taken seriously by their loyal followers. No where else. Sorry.

  5. Oops! I forgot to commend Canada for refusing Fox on their airwaves. Decency rears its head…

  6. Its all about perception by whims or forced perception by media, movie, propaganda.

    Western men/women are considered liberated but unfaithful, without family values.

    While Arab/Saudi women are considered suppressed becoz they cover head to toe. Surprisingly, Arab men also cover head to toe but they are considered liberated. Some can be true but it cant be generalised and say that all are suppressed.

    Perception of US women/men is not created by outsiders. See what “The MOMENT OF TRUTH” US reality show describes how they cheats their wives/husband/sister-in-law/brotehr-in-law/relation with ex/neighbour/teacher/student/friends.

    Every1 knows what happens in many student hostels in US.
    But,Some can be true but cant be generalised for all in US too.

    Here is one peace of news from Washington post:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/altmuslimah/post/no-sex-on-campus/2011/10/20/gIQA5ZWy1L_blog.html

  7. Quotes:
    ”only solution is female solidarity” & ”Any broader change will have to come from women organising around the issue, she says – such as the boycott of male-dominated panels, for instance. Walter also calls for more solidarity. “I think we have to consciously show more support, as women, for women who appear in public”. More:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/dec/04/why-british-public-life-dominated-men?CMP=twt_iph

    So this may show that it is more harder for Saudi women because they can’t organise themselves together because there is almost complete BAN on Institutions of civil society in Saudi. So American women have more advantage in this regard.

  8. 100% of Saudi women are oppressed BY LAW- not because of their clothes (though legally enforcing a dress code is part of it). Many are further oppressed by family.

    I don’t watch shows like “The Moment of Truth”. And I’m glad to hear that you don’t think it can be generalized to all US/Westerners. Just like many westerners know that not all Saudi men: abuse their wives, trap them in marriages, marry children, and are glad women cannot drive. Even though the Saudi law allows it.

  9. “Much heartened this week when I heard that Fox News…” How typical… Oh yes, lets keep alternate opinions and other views away because they might offend god’s elite. Actually, it is not surprising that liberals and/or Muslims would want to censor and silence others – that is what they do. Or is is just that they favor certain media and their financial interests?

    Perhaps Mahaska and Gwendolyn could be so kind as to link to a Fox story and then enlighten us as to the errors therein? I am sure will be a no-brainer for them.

  10. I don’t agree with the “fox news is bad” ,, as if the others all speak the solid gold thruth 🙂 every media outlet spins stuff for ratings. it’s a money game, they have no great disire in enlightenig people .
    To truly learn you have to seek all sources, the news news medias put out is not fact it’s an interpretation of various events and people can interpret it a million different ways.

    I have policing / control of any sort, both int he US and in saudi .. treating people as if they don’t have a brain in their head.

    All countries try it , just that saudi tries it a more overtly on it’s female population and others don’t atleast openly have laws claiming women are emotional dumb idiots.

    As for the video, lesser said the better.

    @Azad ali shah – What happens in students hostels in US happens in most other countries too. i have seen it happen in India , in Saudi ( oh yes ), i have seen it in england and from my very close friends i have heard the same happens in malasia and Australia too..

  11. After watching the first two minutes of the video, I stopped it because a question came to mind. The video so far talks about how the message to women is that their value comes from how they look. I am curious how this differs from Saudi Arabia and the broader Arab world. What things do husbands/boyfriends value in their women? What are Arab women taught is of great value to their prospective husbands? What messages do Arab women get from their media or better yet, their religion, their culture, their parents about what their men value in them?

    From an outsider perspective it seems as if looks are very important even to those men, but maybe I am wrong and the men value their women’s brains and contributions to the family and so forth. So why is having multiple wives necessary if your women are so valued for things other than their looks? Is it so men can discuss brain teasers and world events with more than one intellectual wife or maybe they value a variety of sex partners or cooks in the kitchen?

    I think it would be a good post to better understand what Arab men value because when I hear men go out and marry younger women, I cannot help but guess looks has something to do with it. But maybe I’m shallow like that and those men have loftier reasons than I give them credit for.

  12. I think there are all kinds of men. And certainly looks are often important for men everywhere. But the values- seemingly supported by law would be the woman’s ability to bear children and her ability to be obedient. They call it “Islamic” values- but I certainly don’t see Islam as that limiting and derogatory to women.

  13. @Susanne430,

    So why is having multiple wives necessary if your women are so valued for things other than their looks? Is it so men can discuss brain teasers and world events with more than one intellectual wife or maybe they value a variety of sex partners or cooks in the kitchen?
    ——————————————————–

    Human being is the biggest culprit who always try to find excuse to fulfill their nerves as per their whims. There are only 18% Muslims in Arab world and 82% in rest of the world. And for this 82% Muslims having more than one wife is taboo, not so common. Question also arises, how can a man can still find more than one wife? Is it that men-women ratio is huge difference? How women still accepts to be 2nd wife? So, men cant be blamed wholelly when a man marries 2nd wife.

    You talked something abt religion. As per Islam, to cook, wash for her husband is not a duty for his wife(if she does, thats her greatness but she cant be forced to do so).

    Be it Hindu,Muslim, Sikh, Christian, Atheist, it is man’s tendency to justify his/her heinous act somehow, by using any means – this is how this quranic verses is misused out of context.

    Polygamy has become so mythical in the minds of many people that they assume being Muslim means having four wives. This is a false notion, of course. A very renowned anthropologist, Edward Westenmark, in his two-volume work, “History of Human Marriage,” notes that there has been polygamy in virtually every culture and religion, including Judaism and Christianity. It doesnt mention Hinduism but there is no limit of number of wives in Hinduism as well. But the point here is not to say, “Why blame Islam?” Actually, Islam is the only religion even among Abrahamic faiths, that specifically limited the practice of polygamy(maximum of four wives) that existed before Islam and established very strict conditions for guidance. The question, “How could any man have two wives? That’s terrible!” reflects ethnocentrism. How can u treat all wives equally? In what situation, condition a man can marry more than 1 wife? These rules and terms and conditions arementioned in Islam only. We assume that because we’re living in the West or Asia and it seems strange, and we assume it must apply to all cultures, all times, under all circumstances. This simply isn’t true. Let me give you one example. In the savage attack on Afghanistan, genocide was committed on the Afghani people. It is estimated that 1-1.5 million people lost their lives, a great majority of whom were men of a marriageable age.

    Now, with a great shortage of men, what will happen to their widows, their orphans and their daughters of marriageable age? Is it better to leave them in a camp, with a handout? Or better a man is willing to take care of his fallen comrade’s wife and children?

    It is obvious that monogamy is the norm for Muslims. If we assume that having four wives is the norm, then we assume a population of 80% female and 20% male, which is an impossibility on the aggregate level. The only verse in the Quran that speaks about polygamy, speaks about limiting not instituting polygamy. The verse was revealed after the Battle of Uhud in which many Muslims were martyred, leaving behind wives and children in need of support. This verse shows the spirit and reason of the revelation.

    Similar case was happened in Indian state Mizoram in a decade long abolition of Christian terrorism by Indian Army in 1980s. Thousands of men were burnt, killed. Population of men sharply decreased. Number of unmarried women and widows increased. Society became pollutted. Girls, women started standing in bus stand,market. Prostitution case increased. Sexually transmitted disease increased.

    In such situation, how will u give dignity and protect women?

    So, there are certain terms and conditions for polygamy(plz dont ask those terms and conditions again. I dont like to do another reaserch in this big topic again. Plz ask to some other Islamic community.). Polygamy is to give dignity to woman and save society from being pollutted. Terms and conditions, limitation to 4 wives and strict rules for poloygamy is to restrict the sex manic men from marying any number of wives as per his whims without considering certain terms and conditions. Thus, u can think that Islam gives solution of all problems. But, problem is that people fail to use correct verses from Quran by ignorance or just to misuse to justify crappy activities.

    Even though, there is no legal acceptance of polygamy, its not uncommon to sleep around with so many women in many parts of the west, coming back home in drunken state and beating wife, kids, giving financial burden on wife, again depends on individual but cant be generalised.

  14. @Radha,

    I know the difference very much if u have seen in England.
    I havent’ seen even a single boys/gals Hostel which sits next to next in India. In the Engineering University I went in Capital Delhi, women were not allowed to go inside boys hostel, men were not allowed to go inside gal hostel. But surely they have to meet in specially arranged common meeting room.

  15. Sandy, oh that’s interesting. I also thought of honor after I posted my comment. I’m sure men value that, but I think of that more in terms of something men think they *own.* And is this honor owned more by fathers, brothers and male cousins or husbands? Maybe it’s transferred to husbands from the former when the women marry. Anyway, thanks for what you shared. I guess bearing children makes sense of why a man would want more wives.

  16. Azad, thanks for your reply! I’ve actually heard most all of that before and I do understand the reasoning for polygyny in the context you mentioned (after the Battle of Uhud).

    What taints it for me and the reason I mentioned polygyny in relation to this video is when I hear men threaten their wives with ‘I’m going to marry another …’ type statements when she doesn’t meet some demand that he has. Or when a man marries again and his first wife doesn’t even know! I find those reasons shameful. They make me think men value looks and will trade in the first wife for a younger, more beautiful wife – and they justify it as OK because of Islam.

    Though we both know there are conditions and these men are actually anti-Islam by taking other wives in this way.

    Are you married or looking? What do you value in women? What message does your society send to women about what men value?

  17. Fortunately life in that video is not the norm in the USA. If you flip the statistics around on the number of women holding positions of power in private or public institutions as compared with KSA then I guess the behaviour shown in the video is okay because women certainly have much better representation and respect in the USA than in KSA. Please don’t go on about how women in KSA are respected. They are respected so much that they must cover up, stay at home and produce babies.That is not respect … it is control.

    Well, it hasn’t been that long in the USA or Canada or the UK since women were unable to vote so we shouldn’t be so smug. Women are certainly advancing in the western world and they will continue to do so. Rome wasn’t built overnight. Freedom comes in all shapes and sizes and ways. The fact that we can show a video such as the one above says a lot. Freedom!!! Give me freedom to have this kind of video made any day compared to the lack of freedom in other countries.

    I did not grow up with a religious background and nor did I sleep around. One CAN have excellent morals without religion in spite of what the ‘campus’ news article indicates.

  18. Are you married or looking? What do you value in women? What message does your society send to women about what men value?
    ———————————————————

    Well Susanne, I have married for 2 years with an Arab origin, spanish raised gal. I never categorise men/women work. I cook, wash clothes,I even wash her inner wear, I iron her clothes(of course she also does for me). Since we got married in 2 years she never ever cooked even a single week continuously. If she cooks, she will prepare for 1 week and put in fridge, I will eat same food after warming everyday for 1 week. We go for holiday very frequently. In 2 years, we have visited so many places around world. U can imagine in 2 years I booked 39 national and International flights, we lived 41 days in hotel. She didnt work for 2 years. I took care all she needed. I never keep myself before her. She even order her clothes from Australia, US if she doesnt find in shop. I never ever say or complain if she cooks for me or not, if she prepares nicely or not. I say Thanks to Allah and eat whatever she gives, if not I prepare myself. U know I dont eat breakfast but 2 times food – lunch and dinner. I dont remeber single weekend we dont go out and eat outside. I even cleanse her vomit when she is sick. We dance/sing together, we do kid’s fight sometimes. I never deny her right on bed or in daily life, even though she denies many times. I dont force her ..ever .. I dont remeber single thing she could not get becoz of me. I always fulfill her needs. I make her feel so comfortable so that she can express what she likes.

    We married 2 times in her place and my place, I did all expenditure, her huge dowry. I never shout at her. Even when I raise my voice little bit out of anger, I say sorry and apologise her. My family loves and care her so much. We were in Singapore, she likes the place so much. We decided to settle in Malaysia as we both like it most. Finally she said she wants to be near her home. So I left my permanent, high paid job in Singapore and came to London 8 months back.

    She said she is bored and want to do job. I prepared her CV, trained interview skills. She got job in first interview, he boss said he was impressed by her CV.

    We had a few small misunderstanding after she started working.. no time for each other. She started asking divorce. I apologised her even though I am not wrong. I tried to remind our nice memories but she says I dont go back to past. When I ask why going back past just to see that misunderstanding? She hangs up phone. Her family loves me so much. In my family all my brothers/sister doesnt utter single word when our father/mother says something even though we dont like in heart..that is called respect in my culture and religion. She doesnt listen her father too even though she doesnt argue with her father. She is the Queen of her own brain.

    So, sometimes this women liberation/suppression is just a media drama. Sometimes I feel that if women are more stronger they will beat men every moment 🙂 If they are superior financially they will divorce everyday. There are millions of male victims in Arab too if not billions.

    If men thinks having a good job is independent, then no man will marry in world. Then why women think having a job is independent?

    This so called liberated women easily breaks family. I dont see any problem when we hear and obey our parents as long as it doesnt really harm me/society. I dont think its suppression when wife regards and obey husband and do something good to please him when he comes back tired from work. If its called suppression, there should not be commander, chief in Army.

    And this is not in my case only. Many women in Arab thinks that they will get dowry from any man and can re-marry. I am not generalising all women or all Arab here. Many depends on individual but surely family is breaking more today than before.

  19. I dont think its women liberation when a young gal carries 2 kids without even knowing who is the father of the kids. I see it as morale degradation. So many so called liberated women are suffering due to depression, financial burden to fulfill the needs of the kids whose father is unknown.

    And so many men take advantage of this morale degradation in society. Many dont like to marry as they get what they need without marriage. So no need for wife. When u get what u need from outside, why to take responsibility for family – this is what many perverts think.

    When husband gets angry, wife cools down and when wife gets angry husbands cools down irrespective of who is right/wrong is called liberation, respect, understanding according to me. Real Liberation is not “I dont care, I am liberated, I am independent, I can stand myself, I can live without u”

  20. People make bad choices sometimes. At least in the west an unwed mother can keep her child and not be criminalised. In Saudi the woman can’t keep her baby and can be legally punished if she is not married to the father.

    Where do you think some of the babies in the orphanage in Saudi come from? How is that better than what happens in the west?

    At least unwed mothers in the west can live and can work to support their children. Not ideal- not what I would choose but it’s better than the alternative.

    Many “liberated” women are happily married and very moral. Being moral and being liberated are completely compatible. Saudi and many other Islamic cultures are shame based and simply hide what is wrong. They pretend the immoral things don’t happen. They often get mad at the women in their family if the women APPEAR to have done wrong. That often matters more than what the woman has actually done.

  21. Azad I’m sorry you’ve had a bad experience. I’ve worked all my married life except for the first 3 years I had children. I am very liberated and very moral. My husband doesn’t suffer from lack of my attention any more than I suffer lack of attention from him. We share duties – he cooks and I cook. He vacuums and so do I. He does laundry, so do I. I do not have to cook up food for a week so that he can eat when he wants. We share all the duties and that has brought us closer together in my opinion. My husband enjoys my company because I am out in the world and have lots of things to talk about. We are equal in everything. I have experienced what is the norm for a Saudi wife and I could not do it.

  22. @Azad – Boys and girls hostels don’t have to sit side by side for things to happen. I did stay in a hostel in india and yes i agree boys cannot enter the girls hostel, but that doesn’t mean stuff doesn’t happen. it just means the rooms are not easily accesible. there are plenty of places for students to behave however they wish. we just don’t like ot talk about that and it’s well hidden .. again culture at play.

    As for what happened to you it’s quite sad, but if youre wife wanted to split, then she should get what she wants insipte of you being a saint. that’s what’s good for her and for you inthe long run.
    Like someone else mentioned. I;ve worked ever since i finished my education, thru marriage, kids and all. never did i think to stop working for anything , so inspite of the constant flow of money i havn’t turned immoral or asked for a divorce 🙂 I think having independent thoughts, income and education is required for every women.

  23. My husband is very liberated. I do the cooking and cleaning and hoovering….

  24. Azad, I didn’t realize when I asked what you looked for in a woman that you’d tell me all that. But thanks for sharing more about yourself. I am sorry your marriage didn’t work out. Maybe your wife was used to little freedom so when she made her own money, she decided to see what she missed out on all those years. From the way you described yourself, you sound like a wonderful husband so it’s a shame. I’ve learned though that almost always there are two sides to every story and split. You may be the exception to this and I do hate you were hurt.

    I know plenty of women who work and are liberated and very moral. Many women work and stay married to the same man for decades and quite often without any extra-marital affairs happening. Yes, really. 🙂

    I wish you many blessings in the future! Thanks for answering my questions. 🙂

  25. Why do we care if women are sexual? What is wrong with them being a sexual being? As long as they responsible and dont’ destroy marriages, they are taking proper care not to get or spread a disease. Then who cares. Seriously why is it all right for men to be sexual but not women. Who do you think men are being sexual with. Why don’t we instead just teach people that sex is a normal thing between two consenting people so long as it is done in a manner that doesn’t create a spread of disease and done in a manner to reduce the chance of creating a baby if one is not wanted. This just puts people back to judging each other on the fact that they are feminine or masculine but men are not judged as severely. Instead of villifing women who feel empowered by their sexuality let’s just call it out if someone is going down the double standard road for what it is. Better yet just say yes I am a consenting adult capable of having responsible sex and conducting my own life.

    Lets just be adult about it and get it out there. It happens so lets ensure that people are given full information on sex to make a informed decision, on how to prevent disease, birth control and the ramifications of breaking up marriages.

    The thing with people in the media is if they cross the line and belittle women’s intelligence then shame them immediately and in the open. It tends to stop the crap right away.

    Then let’s all remember that much of these shows are fantasy and are based on ratings. If you don’t like the message turn it off or send in a complaint to the producers/company.

  26. History of God as far as I am concerned:

    So I don’t plan on judging anyone by a manmade God.

  27. Maybe your wife was used to little freedom so when she made her own money, she decided to see what she missed out on all those years.
    ——————————————————

    Susanne,

    Its not money factor at all. She use my credit card, ATM card. I dont even care how much money I have. She is the one who use always. If I need, I ask her to withdraw some money for me.

    She knows that I do everything for her. I booked my apartment in her name. I included her name in Spouse’s column in my passport which is valid till 2020.

    Her’s is ego issue I think. She often says I am liberated and now I am confused what is liberated. She also knows that I dont even turn my face to any gal and I am very loyal to her.

    When She is sick, I cook for her. I dont go for work. I even asked to cleanse her when she goes to toilet but she denied.

    Still We are not divorced. May be she wants to torture me for sometime. Allah knows whats in her mind. I asked her to discuss and do some general consultation or Islamic consultation, she is not ready.
    I have cried, begged but nothing affects her.

    In fact she is my first love. I never had any girl friend in my life. I really love her,my family love her so much and she knows this.

    She has 22 pairs of shoes, and some hundred dresses, If I miss to appreciate when she wears a dress, she says I dont appreciate her. I have to click for her and she has to change 20 dresses per day :). Whever she gets bored, she does shopping… 3hours and I have to carry her shopping bag.. Is it really what women does? 🙂

    I think men are really wrongly made by God for women 🙂

  28. In fact my wife is a nice woman and I respect her from heart, she is loyal to me too..nothing like looking some guys… But has some crazy mind or ..I dont know what to say..

  29. My parents, her parents want to see a baby but she says she wants to pamper herself before having kids, I never forced her but tell her to take her own time and make herself comfortable for baby… See how crazy she is!!

    Now, I feel that if we had a baby, we should have been closer.

  30. I’m just catching up after a weekend in the hospital on all of the interesting comments.

    I was so blessed with my Saudi husband. We met while I was a dedicated and focused career woman. My independence and knowledge of foreign affairs were what drew me to him he told me. He did not want a dependent spouse but a woman who would challenge him and stay true to herself. He also did more than his share around the house without my having to ask. I knew if I needed any kind of support he would be there. He was such a treasure and amazing man.

    Azad – if you do not mind my asking what ethnicity is your wife? Did she come from a background where she had less until she met and married you? Thank you for the confidence you have bestowed among us with your sharing.

  31. Azah:

    Sounds like you need to talk with someone. Let me give you some advice first. Don’t have a baby to try to get the two of you closer. This tactic rarely and I mean rarely works. It generally causes a couple to get further apart than closer. Just some friendly advice.

  32. I agree with bigstick. I baby doesn’t solve problems but can even make problems worse. Your wife doesn’t want to be tied down with a baby just now and in my culture that is perfectly acceptable. It is even acceptable if it decided to remain childless. Perhaps she just wants to be a wife with you and not a mother … at least not for now.

  33. Azad, oh I see that you are still married. Sorry for misunderstanding. Maybe your wife feels too much pressure from your family, her family and you to have a child when she realizes a baby would tie her down. I have an Arab friend and his sister doesn’t want to marry presently. She looks at her toddler nephews and while she loves them, she says they represent “chains” to her right now. She simply doesn’t want to be married and pressured to have children right away. I know it’s the social norm for many, but some women have minds of their own.

    If you are pressuring her or trying to talk her into having a child so you two will be closer, back off. Keep being a responsible and caring husband and when she feels secure in your love and commitment to her, she may decide she wants to start a family with you.

    I agree with the ones who discouraged you from having a baby in order to make you closer. I often find this backfires as babies are sweet, but they demand a lot of time. And it seems you need a stable relationship between you two first.

    I hope one day you can report good news to us about your marriage. Again thanks for opening up to us about your life. Hope you don’t mind all the free advice. 😉 😀

  34. I agree with what people said. A child just makes things harder if a marriage isn’t on the right foot.

    Azad, you sound like a very loving caring man. But do you think maybe your wife wants her space so she can grow up? You gave her everything- but she did not seem to learn to behave like a responsible adult- but like a child. Grown up women don’t recklessly spend like that. Adult women (and men) learn to budget and then they appreciate things more. In fact, in some ways she doesn’t sound liberated at all- just indulged.

    I’m not saying this to be mean. I am hoping it might help. You can ignore what I say if you think I’m wrong. Anyway, all the best to you, and your wife.

  35. Azad,

    A few corrections:

    You say: Actually, Islam is the only religion even among Abrahamic faiths, that specifically limited the practice of polygam

    Fact: Read the New Testament – It is elegant, easy reading and you will find the phrase “Husband of one wife”

    You say: ….the Battle of Uhud in which many Muslims were martyred

    Fact: the word martyr, in English and the Western Tradition, is a person that is put to death for his faith. For example, the people that Muslims kill because they leave Islam are martyrs. The word you should use is ‘casualty’ – that is someone killed in a war. Oh yes, there wouldn’t have been so many dead Muslims if your dear prophet had not continually attacked his neighbors.

    You say: We assume that because we’re living in the West or Asia and it seems strange, and we assume it must apply to all cultures, all times, under all circumstances.

    Fact: I assume nothing. I do not accept cultural or moral relativity. If it is evil for infidels, it is evil for Muslims, and vice-versa.

    You say: Indian state Mizoram in a decade long abolition of Christian terrorism by Indian Army in 1980s

    Fact: The Mizo movement or rebellion was a minor affair. India’s army is 99% directed for defense against its Muslim neighbor, a country that thinks it still has the right to rule over and subjugate hindus.

    Also I would be a little careful as to who you call ‘terrorist’. How about your dear prophet that said “I am made victorious with terror”. Does that make him a terrorist? Do you think I made up the quote? Are there good terrorists (Mohammad) and bad terrorists (non-Muslims, any)?

    You say: Polygamy is to give dignity to woman

    Fact: ha ha ha ha….

    You say: its not uncommon to sleep around with so many women in many parts of the west, coming back home in drunken state and beating wife, kids, giving financial burden on wife, again depends on individual but cant be generalised.

    Fact: Oh yes, just last night I got drunk, I beat my wife 5 times, spent $1 million on online gambling and then did kiddie porn straight for 80 hours, stopping only to do heroin and kill little puppies. And that was just yesterday. Tomorrow I am going to go out and rob widows and steal milk bottles from babies.

    Sometimes it is hard to be serious.

  36. Azad, time to be less mean. I liked your words about the wifey. It shows real concern and respect. Yes, kids make a difference in most marriages, and can/should bring a couple together, even closer. After all, children are an eternal link between a man and a woman, even more so than ‘love’ or passion.

  37. @Jay

    Okay. Good cop, bad cop by the same person. I like it. 🙂 :()

    @ Azah

    Seriously, don’t have kids until you know the marriage will work. If you are young then you have time. It sounds as if you are very young actually.

  38. Azad, oh I see that you are still married. Sorry for misunderstanding. Maybe your wife feels too much pressure from your family, her family and you to have a child when she realizes a baby would tie her down.
    ————————————————————-

    Susanne,

    From my family there is no pressure at all. I too never pressurised her. But I know my family love to see a baby. I discussed once with her but she expressed that she doesnt like now. I simply encouraged her opinion and ask her to make herself comfortable as much as she wants. Even she appreciated me and said that I allow her to do whatever she likes.

    Only problem we had is little misunderstanding since she started working due to lack of time for each other. I consider myself as cool but sometimes very short tempered. But as compared to her, I am like ice. When she gets angry its like earthquake inside home, she will destroy things, throw things… I have to say sorry and appologise even though I dont know where I was wrong with her.

    But, she is really nice gal, every1 loves her, she can win other’s heart. But, something wrong that still I am trying to find. I am asking one good reason why she is doing like this.

    AB, She was born in Morocco from an Arab family but raised in Spain, Barcelona.

  39. Unfortunately, if divorce happens, it will be first divorce in my family, relatives, neighbour. I have requested all her family members, her close friends and aplogised her. Hope, she comes back to my life. I still have strong feelings that she will come back.

  40. @Azad – If she comes back she should do so because she wants to and because she loves you , anythng othe rthan that like say patch up by relatives, subtle pressure, being nice to her etc., will lead to a disastrous end 🙂

    have you thought that maybe she doesn’t love you as much as you do her? not trying to be mean and forgive me if it sounded that way but maybe just maybe she doesn’t want to stay inthis marriage for no reason, maybe she’s a spoilt brat who is out to ruin her life??

    All i say is she an adult? ifshe is she has to decide.

    maybe that one incident was the deicding factor, a single thing can sour a relationship.
    I’d say give her a time limit, no one has the right to leave anothers life hanginig in limbo , after a set time and no reconcilation file for divorce and move on.

    You have 1 life, live it well , live it happily. — just my 2 cents.

  41. @Radhaa,

    Thanks a lot for the advice. May be I am blind due to deep love for her. I hope things happen in right way. But, I will be broken somehow if things happen in negative. I love her so much that I even gave her piggyback many times while playing around.

  42. @Jay,

    Thanks for the opinion.

    Regarding old testament. I dont know why Christians should ignore old testament:

    “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.(Mathew 5:17)

    Jesus is saying we are not to think that his coming abolishes the Old Testament but to fulfill it

  43. Azad, your wife has experienced freedom in both Morocco and especially Spain. Pressure from families can be devastating and perhaps this pressure on her causes her outbursts. My advice would be to let her be for awhile. No pressure from anybody including you. Let her be and give her time to sort out what she really wants. She is obviously unhappy and the only person who can make that better is the woman herself.

  44. @Wendy,

    We live alone here, no family members. I think she is not presurrised too. Since we got married, we have been alone.

  45. I see. Sadly sometimes love does not work both ways.

  46. Azad, sometimes people need space. Maybe your wife feels smothered by your attention and affection. It’s sweet how you love her, but maybe she hasn’t learned to love you yet.

    As for your ignoring the Old Testament comment, it’s not so much that we (or I) ignore it, we just realize the Law was given to the Israelites and not us. And no where in the OT that I recall does it say men are to marry many wives. If anything the OT often shows how polygyny causes trouble. A good reason to avoid it, IMO.

  47. @Azad,
    I would also consider not apologizing when you haven’t done anything wrong, and indulging her as a princess. Marraige is a partnership. She should be spoiling you too. You shouldn’t put her above the marriage- and she shouldn’t put herself above the marriage. A marriage has standards. Money she be respected, appreciated and spent wisely by both partners. All resources are. Responsibilities to the marriage should be met before “having fun”. Time should be made for the marriage, by both partners. She may respect and appreciate you more if you expect her to behave more as an equal.

    It also may be that she just doesn’t handle married life well- and it doesn’t matter what you do. But I think you deserve to be treated better.

    All the best.

  48. I do not know how I missed this post but since I have found it I must comment.
    First: because you don ot agree with the views of a television company it should not be banned. More unaffiliated watch dogs of the media have proven that FOX lies no more than any other network. As a matter of fact it seems they have been given better grades. If you want to say some of those who have right slanted programs yes they do but as was stated here before no more that any other station. MSNBC_CNN are prime examples of those programs who promote the Left. You watch what you agree with so all sides should be available.
    Second: If you want to show nonsense like this young lady acting like a complete jerk and say that is the way all American youth or women act then you need a reality check. I don’t car where you live sex sells and that is why it is used for all reasons. The degree depends on where you are, “In olden days a show of stockings was considered shocking, but today anything goes,” is a line from a song from the early 20th century. WAs there not a post here which pointed out the a woman had a problem because her eyes were too sexy. Give it a break.

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