Saudi Arabian clerics insult new female shoura members

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Several prominent Saudi Arabian clerics have taken to insulting the new female Shoura members. The female Shoura members have been chosen amongst the professional women of Saudi Arabia, all highly achieving female academics and technocrats. The 30 women have said to stand as one voice to lift the ban on women driving in Saudi Arabia.
Two female members of the Shoura Council told the local al-Jazirah daily that they plan to form a united front at the council to push for allowing women to drive. Councilwoman Dr. Salwa al-Hazzaa said; “God willing, we will discuss women driving. Especially as we are 30 female members in the council and we will be one voice.”

The also newly appointed councilwoman Thurayya Al-Urayed told the newspaper that the door is always open for the public to petition the council to look into different issues. “It is likely that there would be other petitions about [women driving] brought to the council.”

King Abdullah’s decision to include women into the Shoura council has made many conservative clerics very angry. A group of conservative clerics staged a protest last month outside the royal court in Riyadh to express their anger.

The clerics tweets against the female councilmembers included derogatory terms as ”The filth of society” and ”Prostitutes”.

 

Naser al Omar tweeted:

“No wonder. Corrupt beginnings lead to corrupt results. Wait for more Westernization.”
Al-Omar described the women Shoura members enthusiasm to tackle the ban on driving as “suspicious” and accused them of ignoring “major women issues” that are more pressing.

nasr

A member of the Islamic Ministry for ”Da’wah, Guidance and Endowments”, Ahmed Al-Abedulqader, expressed his discontent in these subtle words:
“They thought they can mock the mufti by giving these ‘prostitutes’ legitimacy to be in power. I am not an imposter, and imposters do not fool me. For how long will the forts of virtues be torn down?”
Following angry reactions by Twitter users, Ahmed Al-Abedulqader said:
“We have heard and read many insults against (God) as well as mockery against the prophet, prayer be upon him, and none of those defending (these female) members was angered.”

A former teaching assistant at King Saud University, Dr. Saleh al-Sugair, slammed the assignment of female members at the council and tweeted:
“The insolent (women) wearing make-up at the Shuora Council represent the society? God, no. They are the filth of society.”
This wasn’t the first controversial statement by al-Sugair, who is not a cleric but a medical doctor known for extreme religious views. Sugair has over 40 thousand followers on twitter and is known for advocating against women employment, women driving, and women treating male patients.

It is important to also note that although the infamous tweets were re-tweeted and hash-tagged, many Saudis condemned the attacks on the female Shoura members, especially since they came from figures who are supposed to preach tolerance, compassion and respect.

Author Maha al-Shahri tweeted:
“(These statements) are a moral crime. The government has to set laws to (teach) them and their likes (morals).”

Abdelrahman al-Sobeyhi, tweeted:
“Every disease has a medicine to heal it except stupidity.”

Ali Abdelrahman, tweeted:
“This is ignorance that does not belong to Islam.”

Another twitter user tweeted:
“The problem is that they think they have immunity from God!”

AA

Read more:

Al Arabiya

Riyadh Bureau

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61 Responses

  1. @ American Bedu
    Actually no man,wether cleric or non cleric has the right to insult any woman wether Shaora member or non member.How ever I believe that Men and women must do their duties as laid down by the creator in the QURAN and Rasool in the hadith.
    May Allah guide them . ( Women/men must not insult the Grand Mufti if they are consulted).

  2. One wonders what is meant by virtue. Doesn’t virtue include moderation in speech? I guess not.

  3. There is a lot of positives in this story. The ladies who were selected to the Shura council may not feel great about such attacks, but that is the price to pay fro breaking the glass ceiling. I a sure most of them are mature enough to deal with it, given their credentials.

    What is positive is the trend in social networks, where these crazy clerics get an overwhelming negative response from the Saudi public. Before social networks, these crazies will make their arguments in local news papers and no one has a chance to respond. Now they get exposed and the back lash reduces their stature. They lose profitable TV appearances and even their jobs in some instances.

    Some of the tweets were questioning the King’s decision directly and rudely. I would not be surprised, if Sheikh Ahmed Al-Abedulqader is shown the door gently through retirement or a “special” assignment, in a couple of weeks.

  4. Start with Mufti and the Ulama High Council, terminate their unearned and undeserved huge budget. This will do it, but it won’t happen peacefully because the ruling royals need them to justify their policies, practices and illegitimate system.

    However, I encourage these parasites to continue talking because the more they talk the faster they loose whatever remains of their artificial credibility.

    Like their royal partners, they refuse to recognize the transformation of the world and its impact on Saudi society, specially the face book and twitter generation.

  5. Ali:

    You hit the nail on the head. Saudi will be transformed greatly in 10 years due to the younger generation and their savvy on the internet and social blogging. These clerics are hanging on by just a few threads and they know it. They will continue to push for internet censorship in a desperate attempt to slow the inevitable.

  6. Yugh! Disgusting mysoginists!

  7. Translation is inaccurate.

  8. Snowman:

    The provide the correct translation.

  9. Bigsick1, The term “prostitutes” shocked me, then went to check the original tweet in Arabic, but was unable to find this term.

  10. Snowman:

    Okay then……………. what was stated?

  11. My favorite is the cleric complaining about “westernization” on Twitter.

  12. There always seem to be inaccuracies in such article when translated over from Arabic to English. Most of the time, intentionally.

    I would like to read the original tweet in Arabic. Can’t trust most translators to be honest. Especially not in these days. Having said that, I wouldn’t be surprised if the did say something along those lines.

    Ummm….I know this is kind of being lazy on my part, but could someone kindly link me the original tweet in Arabic? 😛

  13. Sandy, on March 2, 2013 at 1:31 am said: My favorite is the cleric complaining about “westernization” on Twitter.

    Yeah, that was my favorite also, by far. Of course, few things offer surreal experiences as when Islam and the West interact—when 7th century primordialism encounters 21st century relativism. :)-

  14. I read the tweets in Arabic and English, The translation is fairly accurate. Of course some specific words do not translate perfectly to English, but there is no doubt these were very nasty tweets.

    Kareem, if you really know Arabic, then translate the following into Arabic and google it and you will find articles in Arabic with copies of the tweets ” Ahmed Al-Abedulqader tweets Shura Council Women”

    And yes you need to stop being lazy, if you want to raise doubts about an article. It is 6 words to type. Do your own research.

  15. Nice one Moq! 😈

  16. Dato’ Mariam Saidona Ismail
    *when 7th century primordialism encounters 21st century relativism*
    Nice!
    I had to look up ”primordialism”, excellent comment.

  17. If that’s how they treat their own sisters in faith, I am not surprised that foreign women fare even worse. I have always suspected that those who strive to become clerics in Saudi Arabia are natural misogynists because you can’t be so hell-bent on restricting women without hating them at least a bit. Being a cleric legitimizes their hatred and makes it look well argumented and acceptable.

    What kind of man – and cleric – can throw the word “prostitute” around with such ease as if it is something for everyday use? Besides, according to every dictionary, “prostitute” means “a person who has sex or money”. Apparently, this word has a very extensive use covering all kinds of situations which involve no sex at all.

    If I were the father or brother of any of these women, I would have sued these men for insulting my daughter or sister without any proof. Can clerics be even sued for anything in KSA or are they above the law just because they represent God? If the answer is “yes”, it must be extremely depressing to have a group pf people who are above the law that everyday people have to respect.

  18. Reality Check, religious leaders are always given undeserved respect and freedom to say and do horrible things. The more undeserved power religion has, the more crimes their leaders can get away with.

    Or as the revered Christopher Hitchens said:
    ”Put the word ”reverend” in front of somebodies name and there’s nothing they can’t get away with”

  19. Bigstick1, what has not being said is that Abdulqader didn’t use the term prostitutes. he can sue Alarabia for putting words in his mouth.

  20. @snowman,

    He used the word Alsagqetat, which is a term used to describe prostitutes and whores in Arabic. If you want to translate literally, then the word means “fallen females”, but that does not quite capture his meaning would it? That was followed by more nasty words by the way.

    I assume you know Arabic and get the context of his tweet, or you should stop arguing from ignorance.

  21. @MoQ: Thanks for the help man. And yeah, I’ll try my best not to be lazy next time. ^^

  22. Snowman and Kareem. Now isn’t that bad luck for the apologists… We have an Arabic speaking, rational and honest commentator who actually debunks your lack of knowledge of the Arabic language.

    And can we now please go back on topic; these nasty evil clerics who hate women and falsely accuse decent professional women who only want to do good, as prostitutes and worse.

    Actually I am wondering why you two, considering the wonderful respect and protection women in Muslim communities enjoy, are not at all upset and angry at these despicable religious leaders?
    Is it maybe because you are of the same opinion?

  23. @Afke: You seem to just live jumping to conclusions, don’t you? Where I give the idea that I supported what this person said? How do you not know that I wasn’t looking for this man’s name in order to know who he is so that I can add him to my list of idiotic people that who claim to be Muslim?

    Don’t be so fast to jump to conclusions. It’s a quality which is shared by the feeble minded

  24. Women coming out of their homes they should expect all types of people and all types of treatments. This is not their place to be disrespected. But if by error these women has come out of their homes, their activities should be ingnored because of respect and modesty.
    I would be obliged if some body can tell me if any of the muslim women became a member of ashoura in the time of Prophet Mohammad pbuh or these women went door to door for preacihing.
    Every man and woman must know their real place. I am not defending the action of clerics but trying to understand why it happened and under what circumstances.
    May Allah guide us all. Aameen (Amain)

  25. Ah, so that’s why these professional women deserve to be called ”prostitutes” and the ”Filth of society”…
    They go out of the house…
    Thanks for explaining this Sami. Without your brilliant explanation we would never have have understood the real problem.
    They go out of the house.
    Of course they deserve what’s coming to them. Especially in a society ruled by the religion of peace and respect for women.
    We should not have forgotten that in the utopian islamic existence the proper place for a woman is being locked up in a windowless room.
    Thanks very much.

  26. @Sami,

    “I would be obliged if some body can tell me if any of the muslim women became a member of ashoura in the time of Prophet Mohammad pbuh…”

    The prophet did not establish any council or group for Shura. It is a myth to think there was a process and specific group established (especially the myth that Islam established a democratic process). The prophet only referred to Shura in the context of a leader getting council. There was no laws or structure for that. Since the early Muslims lived in tribal war time, most of these consultations happened with powerful tribal leaders or wealthy followers and the primarily were on issues of tribal war fare. The purpose was to get primarily to get their support for the next raid or defense. The consultation was not diplomatic nor was it aimed at including broad representation. Hence, the idea of the shura council was not of the time of the prophet, but you are only questioning it now because women are included.

    “Every man and woman must know their real place. I am not defending the action of clerics but trying to understand why it happened and under what circumstances.
    May Allah guide us all.”

    So what is the place of these women in your opinion, when they were appointed by the ruler of the country for the job?

    and

    Under what circumstances you propose that calling a group of women whores, would be OK?

    By the way we already know the circumstance of his tweet, so why are still intent on questioning the situation that led to this.

  27. Sorry about the typos, the sentence should read:

    “There were no laws or structure for that. Since the early Muslims lived in tribal war time, most of these consultations happened with powerful tribal leaders or wealthy followers and they were primarily on issues of tribal war fare. “

  28. Sami:

    Since allah doesn’t exist I guess you will be alone waiting for guidance for a long damn time.

    Cheers.

  29. sami, on March 2, 2013 at 4:58 pm said: ” … I would be obliged if some body can tell me if any of the muslim women became a member of ashoura in the time of Prophet Mohammad pbuh or these women went door to door for preacihing …”.

    Sami, irregardless if women were part of a shoura council or not in 610 BC, it doesn’t mean that they cannot be part of a shoura council in 2013 AD! Time doesn’t stand still, y’know.

    There is one man in Islam that is indisputably the greatest in the annals of this religion. He is Imam al-Gazzali. He is so highly revered amongst the majority of Muslim clerics that he is called Hujjatul Islam or ”proof of Islam”. For many, his authority in religious matters is only second to Mohammed and/or koran.

    So what is the real place of women in Islam? Following is the view of greatest Muslim luminary, Gazzali. No other Muslim ever rose to his rank and knowledge. If this is how Ghazzali and Rumi thought of women, why should we expect anything better from ordinary Muslims?

    In his “The Revival of the Religious Sciences”, Gazzali defines the position of women in Islam, as follows:

    – She should stay at home and get on with her spinning.

    – She can go out only in emergencies.

    – She must not be well-informed nor must she be communicative with her neighbors and only visit them when absolutely necessary.

    – She should take care of her husband and respect him in his presence and in his absence and seek to satisfy him in everything.

    – She must not leave her house without his permission and if given his permission she must leave secretly.

    – She should put on old clothes and take deserted streets and alleys, avoid markets, and make sure that a stranger does not hear her voice, her footsteps, smell her or recognize her.

    – She must not speak to a friend of her husband even in need.

    – Her sole worry should be her “al bud” (reproductive organs), her home as well as her prayers and her fast.

    – If a friend of her husband calls when her husband is absent she must not open the door nor reply to him in order to safeguard her “al bud”.

    – She should accept what her husband gives her as sufficient sexual needs at any moment.

    – She should be clean and ready to satisfy her husband’s sexual needs at any moment.

    Sami, women in Islamic countries are treated no better than trash. Because, according to these muftis/imams, that’s the way it was in Mohammed’s time. For many, the only escape from a forced marriage or a violent husband is to set fire to themselves or jump into a well. This is their way to get the world’s attention. But alas no one is listening.

    For the benighted people, or rather the zombies of the world like Sami, it is more important to defend Islam, than to save the precious lives of these innocent souls. Most of these victims are very young. Islam is a lie, and I have personally lived it. These lives are real. Where are your priorities, Sami?

    Apologize for the rather lengthy post …

  30. Women has the rights to go out for her needs. I just wrote about that here http://mommyofmoon.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/women-has-the-rights-to-go-out-to-meet-her-needs/

    You know very well that a woman’s place is not just as a wife and mother. Ayesha was a scholar. Many women during the Prophet (peace be upon him) time went to combat and played important roles in the establishment of the religion. Stop being so wome-haters.

  31. Aischa also commanded a battle, and she shot the bow, and she rode horses and her favorite dress was red. And according to her Mohammed helped her in household work.
    The wives of the prophet went out on their own, they did charitable work on their own.

    And the ”needs” of women includes a social life, being well informed, and going out for fresh air and getting the sun on your skin and to get some training of your muscles. Our minds and bodies are made to need these things. Our minds and bodies need to be exercised.

    If you believe we were created by some all powerful invisible friend whom you should obey, then surely you should take proper care of the mind and the body which this invisible friend has created for you. And created in such a was that your mind and body need to be exercised, need fresh air, movement, and sun on your skin.
    Does it not seem you are being disdainful to your creator if you neglect to look after the mind and body he or she created for you?

    And how evil and sinful must it be if you have (undeserved) power over another being and you stop her from doing what the creator meant her to do to keep her body and mind healthy?
    I bet that will earn you an eternity in hell fire!

  32. @bigstuck: It is your opinion that god God doesn’t exist. Why do you feel the need to interject your opinion so often? Are you trying force you beliefs on others while telling other not to force their own you? Why the hypocrisy?

    If you truly are of the opinion that every one is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, you world refrain from try to force your opinions on others.

  33. Yes, Aafke I agree. The needs of a woman is not restricted to that of the conventional needs. These old fashioned clerics really need to change the way they value women. The world desperately needs such strong intelligent women.

  34. When a roaches time is up, it starts fluttering desperately, same way these old ugly dudes time is up soon…

  35. Kareem I do believe that we’re not the ones who are proselytizing non Muslims to our religion. It’s the other way round on this forum anyway. We’re merely giving our opinions.

  36. Ok now. The word that was used ‘ساقطات’ doesn’t mean prostitute is. It basically translates to, ‘ with out morals’. And that does not mean prostitute.

    There are other words that are actually words meaning prostitute. But then used by the cleric has many meanings. Even though the word used can be understood as that. But it’s not it exact meaning.

    I’m not saying what the guy said was ok. Because if prostitute was what he actually intended to say, then by Islamic law, he will have to present concrete for supporting his claims. Otherwise he is to be flogged and his future testimonies taking as lies. That is the punishment for slandering women.

    I’d like to see what this so called cleric has to say about his remarks made towards those women. But I highly doubt he’d be punished if his intentions were to call them prostitutes.

  37. Kareem:

    The second “allah” is used to justify anything against humanity means you are forcing your opinion on another. If you want to say there is a God then expect to hear that there is no god from the otherside. If you don’t want to hear that the don’t use the verbiage “god/allah” or other evil fairytale beings otherwise expect to hear the other side saying delusional tripe. If you want to be allowed to put out that your hate god exists and be tolerated in you delusions fine but don’t expect the other side to agree with you. In addition, the second society states that something is instituted due to the delusion such as mulitations (cutting off of foreskin/FGM) or covering of women then expect a backlash against the idiocy and delusionism that would ordinarily have someone committed or criminalized however, currently we are forced to endure religious hate/mutaliation, along with physical and psychological damaging.

    In other words if you never extend your delusions beyond yourself great otherwise expect it to be confronted. Religions and the belief in delusionism does not get a pass on criticism, rejection or disgust.

    So, Kareem as long as one person goes on about God then expect another including myself to say otherwise. I have forced no one to do anything. What I have done is just stated that your delusional…..

    Try to understand the difference between speech and action.

    The second however the religious forces something in action on me is the second I might take an equal and opposition action to stop them.

    Do you see the difference?

  38. @ Aaffke-Art
    You are talking out of context. we are talking about Soura and you are taliking about HEALTH
    We are taliking about Soura Members and you are talking about CHARITY.
    Please come to the Subject matter of the Bog.

  39. Sami:

    shari councils were instituted as a political construct….they never existed during the made up history of muhammad. So they are nothing more than a political dressing to justify inhuman and idiotic stances for hateful clerics and inhuman elite.

  40. @Mrs B
    She can go out for her needs. Why not. But aware of the fact we are talking about Shoura Council.
    Please think again.Hazrat AYESHA never went out door to door to preach religion, people used to ask her questions as she was a scholar and her teacher was Prophet pbuh himself.
    Please go out of the cotext as BLOGRULES do not allow.

  41. @ Kareem
    God’s existence is not the subject.

  42. @bigstick
    How the Clerics members can be hateful against their own religion specialy in the Shoura Council.
    With apologies you need more information about the topic here.

  43. @MoQ
    I may correct you that SHOURA COUNCIL was not only for War Fare but in all living affairs.

  44. Sami:

    Sharia councils were never part of the warfare in the made up history of muhammad. Next they are an instrument against humanity and clerics benefit from it in prestiage all the while violating human rights and probably doing the exact opposite behind closed doors.

    When man created this God it was for his benefit…….the religious God was created by man and the rules associated also were created by man for purpose of control.

    Even if you could convince me that there was a God……..you could never convince me that manmade religion represents that God………..nor the manmade political dictates of that vile being that the 2 dimensional manmade text invented.

    I have plenty of information………..as far as I am concerned you believe in inhuman and evil practices supported by evil texts that are against humanity. Sharia councils/Canonical law/beth-din, etc and their evil are just an extension of those who initially invented the mass destructive belief system.

  45. Correction:

    and probably doing even worse behind close doors.

  46. Mr/Miss Sami,

    It looks like anytime someone has questions about Mohammed/Hadees/Koran/Allah (exactly in that order), you seem to run for cover to blogrules or “out of context” or “not the subject here”. However, look in the mirror yourself. There is no shame/guilt on your part when you bring these subjects up yourself, and it’s all kosher. As per the proverbial saying: Folks who live in the glass houses musn’t throw stones at others.

  47. @Kareem,

    You certainly know that when a cleric uses that word in that context he is calling them whores. So quit trying to give him wiggle room on that.

    That is unless you are looking at an Arabic/English dictionary to translate, and not relying on your Knowledge of how Arabic phrases are formed from experience with the language. Are you a fluent Arabic speaker?

  48. @bigstick: Do people believing in a creator bother you that much that you feel the need to bring it up anytime, even when it’s not relevant to the topic? Just try leaving that subject just for once in your life. I don’t see you gaining anything from it anyhow.

    @Sami: Yes, I know that god’s existence isn’t the topic. But thanks all the same. 😉

  49. @Sami,

    “I may correct you that SHOURA COUNCIL was not only for War Fare but in all living affairs.”

    There was no Shura Council for the prophet. Name me its members, its procedures, how often did they meet, etc.

    You will not be able to do that, because the concept of of a “Council” is a modern invention.

  50. kareem:

    Interesting this topic is on Sharia councils. These councils state they are enforcing Gods/allah’s law. However, you want me to be silent on the matter. Funny.

    You can believe whatever you want but if you state you believe in it in a public realm then expect someone to telll you no it doesn’t exist. If you have a theocracy that basis every action upon a God design expect opposition. Since Saudi is such a theocracy expect a lot of opposition.

    People who are silent on their beliefs don’t get feedback only those who state that God exists based upon their religious convictions who put this into voice, action or written basis get feedback.

    Putting out there that you believe in God/God’s law requires an answer back not silence. Silence is acceptance. I gain by ensuring that silence is never allowed as it is acceptance that a religous two dimension ink being exists. I will never be silent on the matter as I do not accept it.

    I hope from here you can further understand the gains.

    Quite frankly I only answer against those who bring it up first.such as sami going on about guidance from Allah on the matter of women being prisioners in their homes……It deserves an opposition.

  51. @MoQ
    You are perhaps right. Council is a modern invention. The Companions of Rasool pbuh were the Shoura members . If you do not agree its your sweetwill. Thank you for correction.

  52. @Moq

    Alsagqetat: is used to describe prostitute and it also used to describe other types of women who are not prostitute. I mean it is not exclusive for prostitute. There are many words used to describe prostitute in Arabic, take for example the word (bad) this word is used to describe prostitute, but if someone said: this person is bad, it is wrong to translate bad here as prostitute. In addition, Arabic dictionaries never define the word Alsaqqetat as prostitutes. Let me bring you what Lesan Alarab said, (Lesan Alarab is arguably the most important dictionary in Arabic):

    “والساقِطةُ والسَّقِيطُ: الناقِصُ العقلِ؛ الأَخيرة عن الزجاجيّ، والأُنثى سَقِيطةٌ.
    والسَّاقِطُ والساقِطةُ: اللَّئيمُ في حسَبِه ونفْسِه، وقوم سَقْطَى وسُقّاطٌ، وفي التهذيب: وجمعه السَّواقِطُ؛ وأَنشد: نحنُ الصَّمِيمُ وهُمُ السَّواقِطُ ويقال للمرأَة الدنيئةِ الحَمْقَى: سَقِيطةٌ،””

    Source:
    http://www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=ساقط

    In addition, if someone describe a woman as prostitute they will bear heavy legal consequences, and (HADO Alqadef) will be applied on them. In contrast, Alsagqetat will not lead to Hado Alqadef because it is not substitute for it. The conclusion, is translating Alsagqetat to prostitute is not ethical from Alarabia and they should apologise to Abdulqader.

  53. Correction: In contrast, Alsagqetat will not lead to Hado Alqadef because it is not substitute for the word prostitute.

  54. bigstick1, on March 3, 2013 at 11:42 am said: shari councils were instituted as a political construct …. So they are nothing more than a political dressing to justify inhuman and idiotic stances for hateful clerics and inhuman elite.

    Yes bigstick, I agree. Others may disagree, but let us not fool ourselves. Although appointing women to shoura council and like are great baby steps and history in the making, this tash mash is only for external theater. In reality they will sit on the council as quiet fullas, with no power to bring about any changes at all.

    The only way women’s situation can change is if Sharia law is re-written, or if the Quran altogether is fully separated from all state affairs – meaning it will be deemed completely neutral with no legal right to interfere or influence politics, laws or rights of anyone. Turkey’s secular laws come to mind … although recently it seems to be going in the wrong direction … and it is considered among the “more developed” countries of the world.

    But then again, let us not fool ourselves: It ain’t gonna happen in our life tymes :)-

  55. We must always look on the bright side when baby steps are taken in a culture/system/religion/political hypocrisy in which any kind of step forward is better than the usual giant leaps backwards.

    They may sit silently (for who knows how long) but at least they have a foot in the door and are hearing with THEIR own ears the sort of political goings on in their country rather than second hand as nonworthy participants. I would much rather sit on the inside in silence…than on the outside in ignorance.

  56. @Mrs Benzir of march 4
    I hope you will try to re-write Shria law,which can change the situation of women.
    You try it and surely Allah will grant you Jannah for the Job.

  57. @Snowman,

    Let’s first establish whether you know Arabic or not? and to what level? Clear answer on that please.

    I do not usually care if a person knows Arabic or not, but in this case if you do not know Arabic then you should not argue.

    Words do have dictionary definitions, but like any word context matter. Here is the context of the statement:

    1) The man who said it is an academic, who uses classic Arabic to communicate. It is common in classic writing to use Saqatat to describe loose women who sleep around. It is so common that is almost always the case. He has very good command of the language as he studies Islam, so he certainly is aware of what he said.

    2) In classic Arabic, words to describe prostitutes, sluts, whores, etc. are used interchangeably. i.e. the same word can be used for any of them. Hence, he could have meant any or all the 3. Alarabya used one of them. In any event the use of any of the 3 words is an extreme form of degrading women and you should, like any reasonable person condemn him for such disregard to civility. So far all what you saw is you going out of your way to find some false technical reasons to defend him. Shame on you!!!

    3) No honest person who understands Arabic well and the cultural sensitivity of the word, will understand the word any different than I described above. That is only true of course if they are not trying to defend the action of the cleric.

    4) Let me explain to you the metaphoric structure of how the word relates to the topic. The word literally means the Fallen. If you add Tah at the end, it becomes descriptive of females (i.e. SaqataT). In context it means falling into sin. For women, in Arabic, that is almost always refers to the Sin of the flesh. That is basically calling them one of the 3 words above. Take your pick if you like, they are all foul words.

  58. @Moq

    First you said: ‘the word Alsagqetat, which is a term used to describe prostitutes and whores in Arabic’. Then you became less assertive, and you wrote:” It is common in classic writing to use Saqatat to describe loose women who sleep around”. I wonder what you are going to say next!

  59. @Snowman,

    So you still did not answer the question about your knowledge of Arabic. I am assuming you do not know Arabic with proficiency and just pretend.

    I explained to you in 4 points and in clear terms, how the word is used. All you are doing is arguing from ignorance. And you are on the wrong side of morality by supporting a cleric who is clearly in the wrong. Your interest is not the truth, but defend the cleric at all cost. Even if it makes you look foolish.

  60. The real issue is Saudi is an Islamic society, thus any man or women must first consider the religious implications on our society and not merely try to copy the West believing that somehow they set some trend of virtue or civilization. If these sisters wish to truely be taken seriously try bring knowledge based arguments to their issues instead of feigning feminist rhetoric. make up in public goes against the deen, It’s Tabbaaruj.

  61. Wali Paul…females do not “wish” to be taken seriously..as if it is a choice and they would choose to not be taken seriously. We demand it and yet it is the men in any given society that seem to think we need to earn it from them…meanwhile, they (men) seem to think they are born with the right to be respected.

    If those women on that council are there knowing full well the heat they are going to experience (besides what they already have) then you can bet they are taking themselves very seriously. Now let’s see if the men that share the council with them can do the same (plus the sheiks and imams who seem to think their opinions are relevant to every issue whether they have knowledge or not)

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