New debate page



Dear readers, some people have problems with the debate page, it has really become too large. We have therefore decided to make the old Debate page into an archive.  You can still read the old debates, but please don’t use it for commenting anymore.

The new debate page is fresh and empty and quick to load, so please dear readers, start filling it with your  inflammatory comments and debates!
Carol always really liked a juicy ”inflammatory” debate!


12 Responses

  1. Ramadan! is party time!

  2. No inflammatory this time just a few questions I hope the readers can help me with. I am finishing my next novel and have questions to help get it as accurate as possible. This is the scenario:
    My female character is an American, the male character a Saudi. They want to get married. The female has no male relative left as her father was killed in an accident and she has no brothers. My understanding she needs a male to give his approval, is this correct? How can she have a male relative? Could she be ‘adopted’ into a family so she has a male who can give his permission for her to marry? What implications would this have? Can it be an uncle or brother of the man she wants to marry? This is fiction but I want it accurate so it might help or dissuade westerners who think they would like to marry their Saudi.
    Additionally, I need to know what are the Arab words for Grandmother, Grandfather, sister, and brother? I know Umm is mother and Abu is father. Thank you, readers of this blog, I have learned so much from reading your comments whether inflammatory or not!!

  3. Hi. If they are married in the States they don’t need a guardian unless you are doing an “Islamic” ceremony and you have someone very conservative doing it. Is the American woman Muslim? My father was at my wedding in KSA but the court appointed a guardian for me as he was not a Muslim. On the one hand- this was insulting. Practically speaking it made more sense for me to have a Saudi guardian since that was where I was living. For me it has had no implications whatsoever- nor would it if I were a Saudi. In a divorce a woman is at the mercy of the judge.

    Honestly- I don’t think its much of an obstacle if the woman has no male relative. The legal permission to marry from the government is really all that matters.

    Grandmother is “Sitti”- my grandmother. or Jeddah. Grandfather “Seedi” . Uhkti- my sister. Akhuya- my brother.

  4. Thank you Sandy. I appreciate your help. In this case, they will be living between America and England but make trips to Saudi. She is not Muslim, yet. I haven’t decided how I want to handle that, as I know it is expected the woman will convert but this character never does what is expected of her. I had thought they would have there contract drawn up at the embassy in London. However, as the Saudi man is a romantic type, he wants to take her to Saudi to do the whole celebration thing. He would have to get the travel visa but I think I have that part covered.
    This is the sequel to Only Love Twice, that I wrote last year if you want to read it to see the characters. He is not a devote Muslim, as you will see, but some of the rest of the family is so that is the conflict.
    Thanks again, I hope you will help me when I get stuck in the future.

  5. If they travel to Saudi they will need to have the permission of the Saudi government, which is very difficult to obtain at the moment and can take many years. Unless the Saudi is close to a prince and has a lot of wasta. I suggest you read through the blog and use the search option, there is a lot of information on these subjects, not only in the articles, but also in the comments.

  6. PS, on marrying and guardians etc, and what is required where, a lot of information can be found by googling and reading islamic websites.
    And there are other blogs like Layla of Blue Ababya who describes her marriage, Tara Umm Omar’s blog is specifically about foreign women married to saudis, that should give you a lot of information too.

  7. Aafke-Art,
    I have used a lot of information from the readers of the blog as well as first hand info from Carol. She was so helpful and supportive on the first novel. I thank all of you for the information you share!
    So readers know, the Saudi in the novel is a prince so wasta and political pull will not be an issue, but I will make sure there is a discussion about others being able to get permission. Part of the fun of a fictional novel is giving proper information about real life situations. There is a great post here about how difficult it is to get permission to travel to Saudi Arabia.
    I miss my conversations with Carol. She became my friend and she helped me so much. I hope everyone of you who reads this blog will become a friend also. Thanks, all.

  8. Not all wives convert. I know a handful who did not. Some parts of society will be suspicious of the character of anyone- who once exposed to Islam does not embrace it. But others are respectful of a person’s decision. If they’re living outside the country and only visiting I don’t think it would be much of an issue except concerns on how she might raise any children.

  9. I thank you all for your help. There are currently two excerpts from the next novel available to read on my blog at The one written a few months ago is where she goes to Saudi to meet up and get married. The second is a discussion between Saudi women and western women on dealing with Saudi men and their ideas. I am sure I will make them more in depth before it gets to publishing but I welcome any feedback.

  10. I agree with sandy, I never converted, religion and love are 2 separate things at least in my mind, i can love my husband and yet not choose to follow his religion.
    As for kids that should be discussed before hand, they can be raised as both adn ideally left to follow what they want when they re adults. diff religions provides diff solace for diff people. what satisfies one may not satisfy the other.

    In our case my son is agnostic but follows what i follow and my daughter is a active participant in my religion, my husband is saudi an d is the only muslim in the family, he doesn’t seem to mind or care 🙂 we usually shut down relatives quickly and tell themto mind their own business. but it helps we dont stay in saudi. whenwe were there it was a little troublesopm but we kept religion private and never exhibited to the world, the kids were young so we’d have them follow both religions there. niw they are grown up they have their choices.

  11. Radha, you are a very rational couple. Great to know that such reasonable and child friendly arrangements are also possible.

    I think all children should be taught about all religions and it should be left to them when they are grown up which religion they like best. Or none… That’s what my parents did.

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